TexasCHLforum.com

carlson1 wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote:As a business owner, I have been in situations in which I had to humbly ask customers for forgiveness. But instead of my hat in my hand, I had compensation or accommodation. When I had to change the location of a class on short notice, I refunded part of the students' cost to make up for the additional drive. When I realized that I had made a mistake on a CHL-100, I delivered the corrected form to the student.
Bottom line: the party who caused the situation should accommodate the party that helps fix it.

A Business Man!

I have had to go back to a FFL in 2002 and fill out the 4473 because we were so busy talking we both just overlooked it. All he did was make a polite phone call and I was back the same day.

It was not a certified letter telling me to come back, 260 miles round trip, and a no thank you at the end of the transaction. Academy just left a little bit of bad taste in my mouth. It was not enough to keep me away, but it was enough that I may have learned to stick with my Local Gun Dealers and enough to make me ask if I was the only one.

Jihans wrote:I have been sort of holding back on this thread but I gotta jump in here... after reading all of the posts I have to admit that I am really shocked at the responses. To read some of the responses you would think that Academy was asking us for our right kidney. Are we all that busy and self centered that anything that happens to inconvienence us in the slightest is met with the "to heck with you, that's your problem not mine", attitude that runs through this thread??

I got one of these letters too. I really didn't think it was that big of a deal. I'm in Academy probably every couple of weeks looking at what they have- checking ammo supplies, etc; I drive by it probably a couple of times a week. I simply stopped in on of those times and corrected the form... no big deal. 5 minutes of my time. Did I not fill out the form correctly???? Yes. Should Academy have dome a better of reviewing the form before I left??? Yes. Was I obligated to come back in a fix their mistake??? No. Would I have to give up a few minutes of my time and maybe a few pennies of my gas if I went in to fix the form???? Yes. When have we all become so absorbed in our own lives that a little 5 minute thing like this to help out someone else becomes such a hassle??

I bet that on a daily basis either at work, at home, or out in the community I must do at least one thing that inadvertantly inconvieneces another person and I probably shouldn't have inconvienenced them. I certainly hope that I don't get the "heck with you" responses from my co-workers/customers/family/friends that a lot of you advocate for Academy. Sort of the living in glass houses thing.....

I know this sounds preachy and I'm sure I will get flamed for this post but again... I just don't see the big deal of taking 5 minutes out of my life to help someone else out even if it involves fixing a problem that I didn't create. Maybe I'm a sap... maybe I just try to live too much of a Christian life.... Maybe I just have too much time on my hands....If any of you have ever run a business you know that employee training is always a challenge and keeping the govenrment happy is an even bigger challenge. And if you have run a business I will bet you that on more than one occasion... no matter how hard you tried... you have had to go back to a customer with hat in hand asking for their understanding on an issue.... Did you hope your customers said "no big deal" or "to heck with you"? anyway, my 2 cents. Flame away!!!

PBratton wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:What happens if you tell them to get stuffed, or just don't reply?

To you? Nothing.

To the Dealer? They have to show an effort was made to contact you to correct the mistake on the form. I would assume that it would also tag the Dealer for a more thorough review in the future.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:What happens if you tell them to get stuffed, or just don't reply?

OldCannon wrote:

LAYGO wrote:

OldCannon wrote:
That stuff was no longer required by the ATF _over 10 years ago_. If you have somebody requiring it now, you can be CERTAIN they are not current on ATF guidance/regs, and are more likely to screw things up than not. Run away from places that are like this, FAR away.

I have occasionally discovered errors in 4473s that need to be corrected by the customer. Unfortunately, you can't send a 4473 to a customer, so they need to come in. Since I don't carry inventory, I usually offer a free transfer in the future. I've only had to do it a couple times though, and not in the last year or so.

I've purchased 3 firearms over the last 3 years from them (2 M&Ps (1 new 45c, 1 used but unfired 40mid, $150 off new) & an AR15, (again, used, but nearly unfired, $100 off new)). The way they go thru the paperwork is . . . firm. I never had the impression that they weren't current about how paperwork needs to be filled out. They recently changed ownership as well, but still do the paperwork the same (bought the AR15 there about 3wks ago).

They don't read ATF guidance then. As I've said before, dealers like this can actually _increase_ your chances of something going wrong. Use them with caution.

From the November 2008 Newsletter from the ATF (http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/n ... 008-11.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;):

ABBREVIATIONS

ATF has received a number of inquiries regarding the use of abbreviations on ATF Form 4473 (Firearms Transaction Record) and in the acquisition and disposition (A&D) book entries. As a general rule, abbreviations should be avoided on Form 4473 or in entries in the A&D book. This is to avoid confusion or prevent providing an incomplete record. However, there are a number of abbreviations that are allowed.

The use of standard postal State abbreviations (i.e. AK, DE, VA, TX, etc.) or an easily and readily recognized abbreviation such as Mass. for Massachusetts is permitted. Additionally, the use of D.L. to denote “driver’s license” and O.P. to denote “operator’s permit” are also permitted. In general, if an abbreviation is legible and readily understood it would be acceptable. However, if the abbreviation is not understood, you will be told not to utilize it and continued use will result in either the issuance of a report of violation for the appropriate recordkeeping provision or other appropriate action.

As a rule of thumb, if you are unsure as to whether or not an abbreviation is readily understood, the abbreviation should not be used. Please keep in mind the importance of these records to law enforcement and the need to understand the abbreviations if you go out of business. It is important that the entries are written legibly and completely so everyone can understand them. ATF thanks you for your efforts.

This is why the ATF is perfectly content with things like "TX CHL" instead of "Texas Concealed Handgun Permit" on a 4473, or "Ruger" in your A&D book instead of "Sturm, Ruger & Co, Inc."

P.S. - Based on their draconian insistence on holding on to guidance from the Clinton era, I do not think waving this guidance in front of them is going to change their procedures. Some folks just like doing things one way because, "That's the way we do it."

Mel wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:

Mel wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:You folks should experience the thrill of paper work at a place in Plano known as bullet trap. They are more than ridiculous. I figure they must have caught some grief from the storm troopers at some point. I kid you not, they made me spell out Junior at the end of my name instead of allowing me to put the normally considered appropriate Jr. Then they made me write Texas in the state box instead of Tx. There is not enough room for all this in the box and they insisted I make it all fit in the box. It was getting to a point of silly before I was done. I am not the only one to suffer their wrath either. I have several friends who were put through all kinds of hoops filling out that form at bullet trap. Like I said, I bet they have been roasted a time or two.

That's interesting. I've bought a couple of guns from the Bullet Trap and other than their slightly high prices, I've never had a problem.
The first one I bought was before I had my CHL.

I will tell you something even funnier. I only put up with the silliness because the prices were better than other places.
I will be honest with you. I question your claim that they did not make you do the exact same stuff I and every other person I know had to do. Two exceptions. You made your purchase many years ago or you made it in the past few weeks and they drastically changed policy.
Otherwise, I find you questioning my post as if I made it up more than insulting.

Well excuse me for insulting you. I assure you that was not my intention. I was in no way questioning your post. I was simply stating my experience.
My first purchase was 2010 and the second was 2011.
I apologize profusely. PLEASE forgive me. It will not happen again.

Mel wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:You folks should experience the thrill of paper work at a place in Plano known as bullet trap. They are more than ridiculous. I figure they must have caught some grief from the storm troopers at some point. I kid you not, they made me spell out Junior at the end of my name instead of allowing me to put the normally considered appropriate Jr. Then they made me write Texas in the state box instead of Tx. There is not enough room for all this in the box and they insisted I make it all fit in the box. It was getting to a point of silly before I was done. I am not the only one to suffer their wrath either. I have several friends who were put through all kinds of hoops filling out that form at bullet trap. Like I said, I bet they have been roasted a time or two.

That's interesting. I've bought a couple of guns from the Bullet Trap and other than their slightly high prices, I've never had a problem.
The first one I bought was before I had my CHL.