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03Lightningrocks

jmra wrote:...."Abraham"...
Thanks. I'll do that and hope the disappearing act happens sooner than later.

03Lightningrocks

jmra wrote:
hillfighter wrote:
jmra wrote:My thoughts?
1. I would never let someone get close enough to grab my hand. Doing so would put you in much more danger. A BG on average can cover 20 ft in the time it takes a person to draw a weapon and fire. Do you honestly think you will have time to do the same once a person has a hand on you?
OK. Elevators and stairwells are off limits. What else?
You took my post out of context - if you go back and put it in context you will see that there were no elevators or stairwells in the conversation. Please try to keep up.

Just put him on ignore JMRA. He won't stop. I had to silence him a couple years back. He shows up once in a while, swarms a few posts with wise cracks and disappears again.

03Lightningrocks

HerbM... I have been thinking about your post earlier and will admit to reconsidering some of what you had to say. After reading it again, I am thinking I like the "no thank you" response as well as "not interested" but am wondering why a person that would say something like "but you haven't heard what I was going to say" wouldn't respond the same to "no thank you".

I see your point of using the words "I think" instead of just saying "I said no thank you" possibly coming off as unsure in some way but the way I say it, the words I think tend to come across as a reinforcement rather than a question. But now that I am reconsidering it, there is probably a benefit to just repeating "no thank you".

I admit that I have had situations where a person has attempted to engage in further conversation after saying something like "not interested" but on the occasions they do this, my response gets pretty aggressive. That has typically been when I simply say, "get away from me" or "don't come any closer". It is rare for me to be caught off guard by an approach. I scan the surroundings as I walk and typically pick up on the tell tale signs that a person has just sized you up for an approach. They even look in my direction from across the street and I am eyeballing them.

The next bum or what ever that acts like they are about to head my way, I will give your way a try. Worse case scenario is that it doesn't work and I have to blast the guy... J/K.

Anyway... Thanks for the input. It never hurts to evaluate others input. I shouldn't have responded so aggressively. I got overly defensive about my methods.

03Lightningrocks

HerbM wrote:Actually, lightingrocks you are UNDER ANALYZYING it :)

It doesn't matter if the crack head does get your words -- you want him to but you give it your best effort.

All this is for HIM, FOR YOU, and FOR WITNESSES.

And if he ISN"T a crack head but someone who is only a littler altered and understands your meaning through the fog then that is a GOOD THING.

We practice this. We know pretty much how it will go down, whether you practice it or not.

Not practicing it is like expecting to hit what you aim at without proper technique or practice.

I have watched too many beginners get tongue tied at just a LITTLE PRESSURE from the "bad guy".

Come try it. If you are great at it you will know and if not you will know to practice.

I will respectfully disagree. It is really not complicated at all. Get the hell away from me works just fine. As does any other words telling a person to back off. Saying it with the conviction and tonality that says you aren't kidding is the key. You can say please and if the tone of your voice is forceful, they get the message. I am talking from my personal experience, not some book I read. There is nothing magic about it at all. What causes most folks to get into trouble is allowing a person to get to close before saying anything. The trick is to not feel bad for telling a person to get away from you. That is the hard part for some. Fear of being rude is another problem for some.

03Lightningrocks

gringo pistolero wrote:..."abraham"....

Shooting him is clear and unambiguous.

03Lightningrocks

HerbM wrote:
03Lightningrocks wrote:This weekend I was walking toward the bank in downtown San Antonio to get some cash from the ATM. I was being approached by what appeared to be a panhandler but I was not waiting to find out. I simply said. Not interested, go away. He stopped and started to say something. I interrupted and repeated the words... "I think I said to go away!" in a firmer tone. he mumbled something as he walked the other direction. I am betting what he mumbled wasn't thank you.
This is pretty good.

Having taught this a lot, perhaps you will be receptive if I offer a suggestion to improve this a little?

Leave out the "I think I said...." or even "I said..." or "Man, ..." -- they add nothing, dilute your command (did you say it or not), and most important take up MORE TIME in a situation where seconds can easily count.

Using "Not interrest..." leaves room for argument and criminals just want to ENGAGE YOU; they don't care about WHAT particular just if they can get you into a back and forth.

You say, "Not interested" and they say (something like), "You haven't heard what I said yet", or some such. They ask, "You have the time" and someone responds with "No" and they say, "You have a cell phone, check your phone...."

Avoid playing into the "conversation" game.

One exception that I will use WHEN IT SEEMS it is safe (that is there is enough time and distance based on the context) is a simple, "No Thanks you."

I use this in response to just about anything -- it actually works best when it MAKES NO SENSE. Example: "What time is it?" "No thank you."

It serves as what NLP refers to as a break state; it doesn't play into the aggressor's game; and usually by the time their brain recovers from the non sequitur the moment (and you) has past.

It also starts with NO.

You can try this -- there is a timing component to it -- with Telephone COLD CALLERS and PAN HANDLERS to practice so it is good for something else besides actual criminal approaches. (You get regular chances to practice.)

It will shut down EVERY COLD CALLER if you say this at the right moment -- they don't have a script for this. If you say "not interested" they come back with something like "I am not selling anything we just need your opinion." etc.

I use this (No Thank You) on panhandlers even when I am in my car with the windows up, air conditioning on, and radio playing -- it doesn't even matter if they can't hear me as long as I deliver it with full congruity and intention.

Extra bonus: Most people are actually POLITE about it. Cold callers either thank me or just abruptly hang up themselves. Panhandlers almost invariable SMILE but always move on.

It may seem that I am way picky on these techniques and that is true since I have been practicing, perfecting, and teaching these for about 5 years. (And I also an NLP trainer and hypnotist experience in how humans process language both consciously and unconsciously.

--
HerbM

I think you are over analysing it a bit. This situation is really not that difficult and picking out adjectives don't mean a whole lot to a crack head looking for a hand out. Get away means get away no matter how a person is comfortable conveying it. What works for one person may not work for another. Believe me when I tell you, I am not a person who looks like he should be trifled with.

03Lightningrocks

This weekend I was walking toward the bank in downtown San Antonio to get some cash from the ATM. I was being approached by what appeared to be a panhandler but I was not waiting to find out. I simply said. Not interested, go away. He stopped and started to say something. I interrupted and repeated the words... "I think I said to go away!" in a firmer tone. he mumbled something as he walked the other direction. I am betting what he mumbled wasn't thank you.

03Lightningrocks

WildBill wrote:
HerbM wrote:The jokes would be funny except that it concerns me that some people reading this might think them serious or actual practice.

It is most effective to have set verbiage to use when avoiding and repelling a criminal attack, and to use it EVEN IF the threat is so close that warning and response must occur together.

I recommend the "BACK OFF!" sequence because it works so effectively UP TO the actual response and trying to insert additional wording in a situation that is already fraught with live threatening fear and peril is just not a good idea.

For a useful way to Avoid Criminal Attacks, please see my outline with some useful detail here: http://www.meetup.com/AustinCombatives/ ... d/10163916

You definitely do NOT want to be saying anything that will not do you service when played back by MSNBC or ABC over the following months as you await the Grand Jury decision or your trial. Seriously.
I also hope that people realize that certain posts are jokes and that their statements could be used against them.

This forum has rules that won't allow me to post exactly what I would say but the first word would be FREEZE and the second word would just depend on the person I am screaming freeze to.

Then there are situations I would say nothing and begin firing.

Neither of these comments would have a negative impact if read by a DA in determining what to do if I fire in self defense because I will only be firing if absolutely necessary and there will be no doubt about who the good guy is.

03Lightningrocks

bizarrenormality wrote:STOP!
DON'T APPROACH ME!
LEAVE THE AREA!

Tell an adult.

03Lightningrocks

Tic Tac wrote:
03Lightningrocks wrote:I only get alarmed if the person approaching me is wearing a hoodie.
Here's a trick. It you scream "Allahu Akbar!" loudly, that often gets them to bother somebody else.

It really works good if at the same instant as hollering Allah Akbar you pretend to be pushing buttons on your cell phone.

03Lightningrocks

TexasGal wrote:I was pumping gas one day when a large guy I hadn't noticed before suddenly walked round the front of my truck making eye contact with me and headed my way. The gas hose was between me and retreat and he was too close to take my attention off him to remove the obstacle. So I stared hard at him and raised my hand in the universal stop signal and yelled really loud for him to Stop! Do not come any closer to me! I had my right side just behind the truck door so he could not see my hand was already gripping my pistol. He ignored my order and continued to close the gap between us. He was a lot bigger and younger than me and I was well aware his intent may be to harm me. I again repeated my warning even louder and added. This is your last warning! Stop! Don't come any closer! At that, he finally hesitated and, leaning forward, asked me if I was interested in buying any excellent wax or shampoo for my truck. The guy was running a stand out front of the gas station selling the stuff and had had the brilliant idea to walk up to people at the pumps to sell it. I told him I was not interested and to leave me alone. He returned to his post out front reluctantly. As I left, I stopped there and told him there were hundreds of thousands of armed people in Texas and a good many of them are right here in this county. Walking up to them alone at gas pumps and ignoring their orders to stop could get him shot. You should have seen the wheels turning in his eyes and the light slowly dawning. I am so glad the guy stopped when he did but it still had never occurred to him I might be armed and might even shoot him. It was a good day since we both went home healthy. I filed that away to remember that ordering people to stop may or may not communicate to them they are in danger if they don't. Shooting is a last resort and the barriers of culture, intelligence, language, etc need to be considered when deciding what kind of force tactic to employ before using deadly force.

I only get alarmed if the person approaching me is wearing a hoodie.

03Lightningrocks

WildBill wrote:
03Lightningrocks wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote: Ecclesiastes 3, verses 1 though 8.5:
3 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.
8.5 a time to talk, and a time to shoot,
a time to stand your ground, and a time to run like heck.
(New Second Amendment Version, Zondervandsky)
Are you sure that is not a Peter Paul and Mary song?
The Byrds viewtopic.php?f=83&t=56450&p=868277#p868277" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ahah! Just the same, that sure is alot of stuff to sing before you fire your weapon.

03Lightningrocks

I decided a few years ago to use a line from one of my favorite movies.

"I've killed women and children. I've killed just about everything that walks or crawled at one time or another. And I'm here to kill you, Little Bill, for what you did to Ned."

or maybe this one... another from one of my favorite films.

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

Which one I use depends on the situation.

03Lightningrocks

Oldgringo wrote:Lightning, didn't Mary "Leave on a Jet Plane" not too long ago?

03Lightningrocks

The Annoyed Man wrote: Ecclesiastes 3, verses 1 though 8.5:
3 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.
8.5 a time to talk, and a time to shoot,
a time to stand your ground, and a time to run like heck.
(New Second Amendment Version, Zondervandsky)

Are you sure that is not a Peter Paul and Mary song?

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