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wombat wrote:And when the police get there, if its just one officer still hold your gun on the perp. If the officer drawns on you its just for his safety. If he requests you put your weapon down "Decline Politely" and tell him you will when the second officer arrives to cover the perp. He will understand your concerns, just dont have the gun pointed in his direction.

OK...I've had quite a run today of misinterpreting statements that were intented as sarcasm, so I'll have to wait until you confirm whether or not you were really serious there before commenting further.

TDDude wrote:

DParker wrote:The scenario I propose did not assume that the BG was IN your home. Merely either on your property or in some other situation that makes your possession and use of the firearm legal. It *did* assume, however, that things have played out in such a way that the BG did not challenge you once your weapon was brought to bear (leaving you with no reason to shoot), nor did he try to flee the scene.

I don't see this happening in this day and age.

Well, the fact is that this DOES happen in this day and age. Try Googling "gun", "intruder" & "at bay" and you'll find quite a few news stories describing such incidents.

But I both follow and largely agree with most of the rest of what you said.

Liko81 wrote:You're exactly right, but that's why they're police officers; they train regularly in "shoot/don't shoot" situations. The LEO can never be certain of anything; that's why cops will say ordinary everyday traffic stops are the most dangerous thing a cop does. However, knowing that the homeowner is armed and holding the BG at bay leads the LEO to expect that situation when he shows up.

Since there's the possibility that it was someone else who called the police I have no way of knowing what they've been informed of. Hence my extra concern for their uncertainty upon arrival.

Having encountered this situation, the officer will draw and order the BG to the ground. If at that point you are still holding your weapon, the officer will ask you to lower it. He'll cuff the BG, then ask for your weapon. He's just controlling the scene. If you haven't done anything threatening to him or the BG, you may be left uncuffed, but it's possible that the officer will cuff you as well until the whole thing is sorted out.

That's all fine and what I would expect, as my purpose for posing this hypothetical was not to find out how to avoid being temporarily cuffed at the scene. It was to avoid being shot or otherwise wounded.

Legally speaking, drawing on a BG is use of force. Firing is of course use of deadly force. However, from a practical standpoint, if you are afraid for your life or safety, those of someone close to you, or of your possessions, draw and fire. Drawing on an invading BG by itself isn't always a deterrent, and by the time you figure out it isn't you could be dead.

I believe the axiom here is, "Don't draw unless you're prepared to shoot." Not, "If you draw then you should automatically shoot." There are many reasons and situations that might merit drawing as a defensive precaution, but not automatically require shooting.

TxD wrote:

DParker wrote: So what's the standard recommended course of action here?

Show 'em your CHL badge.

I keep that right next to my Official Mall Ninja Card

WildBill wrote:

DParker wrote:So what's the standard recommended course of action here?

Do exactly what the LEO tells you to do.

LOL! Yeah, I'd definitely be doing that. I guess what I'm looking for is something a little more proactive for the purpose of making the LEO a bit more at-ease to begin with. But perhaps that's not really feasible in this scenario.

TDDude wrote:Make sure the police know you are the home owner. I would simply shout it out. "I LIVE HERE, I LIVE HERE" should probably do it. Body language of the both of you should also tell the officer who is who. Have whoever calls the police tell them that an armed CHL holder is on the premises and have them describe what you are wearing, what you look like etc.

That's all well and good, but none of that is going to leave the newly-arrived LEO(s) certain as to who's who. So I'm still under the assumption that they're going to want neither of us to be holding a gun as they take control of the situation.

Other than that, I'm not sure I would be in the "Holding Them At Bay" business if someone is in my home; especially since the Castle doctrine was passed. If I pull a gun and they challenge me, it's over. If they freeze, then I'm looking for his buddy and if I see one and he's moving, it's over. If they were scrambling to get out, I'm fairly certain I would let them go and make sure I get a good look at the car or which way they headed out. I'm not going to shoot someone in the back as they are running away.

The scenario I propose did not assume that the BG was IN your home. Merely either on your property or in some other situation that makes your possession and use of the firearm legal. It *did* assume, however, that things have played out in such a way that the BG did not challenge you once your weapon was brought to bear (leaving you with no reason to shoot), nor did he try to flee the scene.

But then again, I pray I never have to take another life or ever have to be in that situation.

Of course. I think we're all (or at least the overwhelming majority of us) of a similar mind there.

I assume that this must have been covered here before (many times, I would think), but thus far I've been unable to hobble together the magic combination of search terms that yields any of the aforementioned assumed discussions. Furthermore, I would think that this would have been covered in my CHL class, but I don't recall that happening. (Then again, maybe I'm just getting old faster than I thought.) As such, I apologize in advance for asking what I'm sure must be a redundant question with regard to the following basic scanario:

You're lawfully wielding a firearm (handgun or long gun, CHL or simply on your own property) and you have occasion to employ said weapon to detain or otherwise hold at bay some bad guy who was committing some offense against you. The police are contacted (how is not important here) and they eventually arrive on the scene, where you are standing with your firearm pointed at the BG. Obviously you will need to stop pointing your weapon at the BG, lest you be potentially mistaken as the perp, not to mention the fact that you really want to avoid inducing the tension a LEO experiences when dealing with anyone who has a gun drawn. So the question is...how exactly do you go about defusing this situation?

Simply lowering your weapon is not good enough, nor is holstering your handgun (if carrying one). Either of these approaches leaves you with the ability to rapidly re-employ the firearm, which is not going to make the LEO(s) on the scene much more comfortable. So what to do, then? Setting your gun on the ground (slowly and carefully, of course) doesn't seem to be a good answer either, as it leaves you at least somewhat vulnerable to a stupid move on the BG's part, like rushing you, knocking you back and taking the weapon. Bad juju, that.

So what's the standard recommended course of action here?