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Keith B wrote:
nightmare69 wrote:

Edit: Give me some good thread titles for my academy thread.
How about 'My Life in Copper School'

or "Academy Adventures"

nightmare69 wrote:Things are moving forward. I got sponsored and going to turn in all my paperwork to the academy next week. Already turned in my letter of resignation (felt happy and sick at the same time) and my last day will be January 24th and first day of class will be the following Monday the 27th.

Its happening.

Congratulations!

You're entering into one of the most exciting, challenging and rewarding careers available (IMHO).

Demand excellence from yourself, and work hard to be the best.

If you follow that approach you'll do fine.

nightmare69 wrote:
E.Marquez wrote:
Question; the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education http://www.tcleose.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; site still refers to it as TCLEOSE . Where are you guys seeing it as TCOLE?

All three academy's near me require you to be placed on the roster as a candidate only when they are looking to hire you upon certification, or a associated department paying for you to attend has requested you attend, and has provided a sponsorship letter with the intent of providing a job should you pass and certify.

IOW, if you attend academy... PASS and receive your TCLEOSE cert.. you have a job waiting. I was not aware it was not that way across the board.

My understanding of the pre academy screening, testing, interviews, boards ect is that those chosen to attend = the number of new hires desired,, either by the department that runs the academy or the departments sending folks to it.
You have to have a LE agency sponsor you to get into the academy. 3 types of sponsorships, Full employed, intent to hire, non employed. Most people get the non employed as I will have too then pray you can find a job after graduation. Some department will do the full employed sponsorship and have 2-5 spots. You have to go through all the testing and hiring process. Last department had 3 spots and 140+ people show up. Unless you are a genious and can score high on the civil service test you may as well take a non employed sponsorship and try to find a job afterward.

Some graduates say it took them nearly a year to find work and some never got a job, I will give myself 1 month, if no job I will go to work as a jailer even though that is not what I want to do. Jailers make no money and no telling how long you will have to work in the jail. Being a jailer will be a last resort, becoming a licensed peace officer just to work in a jail seems redundant. Kinda like going to school and getting a law degree, passing the bar, then going to work in a law firm as a custodian. I that is what I have to do as long as it is temporary to become a LEO then so be it. Just scares the doo doo out of me to quit a decent paying job of 10yrs with great hours to go to the academy with no guarantee Ill find work once I get out. Once I get out I will be broke and will have to find something quick.

Three out of 140 is great odds.

In my agency, well over 5,000 people applied and we hired about 22 over the next 2 years. Since we were a civil service agency and could only hire from the top 3 for each slot, only the absolutely best candidates even stood a chance.

That's why I keep telling you not to think in terms of just making average - you need to stand out to get hired. Work hard to be the best of the best.

Unfortunately, rapid hire after the academy is the exception rather than the rule because the hiring process is so long - it can easily take 2 months or more.

The Texas Municipal League is a great resource which many municipalities use to post their officer openings. Go to the job search page, select "police" from the drop down menu, and you'll see all current openings with the most recent first.

Another approach to your post academy employment would be to seek initial hire as a reserve, which is usually easier to get than a full time post. You may be able to put together enough hours from a couple of agencies to be the equivalent of full time if you're lucky, and it would be a much better springboard to launch into a full time position from.

E.Marquez wrote:
texanjoker wrote:
EDIT: Just out of curiosity, I just checked the TCOLE web site and it shows ETPA has a 99.23 overall pass rate for the licensing exam for the past three years total. From the chart, that appears to be a first attempt pass rate.

That is the ? of the day. How many get jobs. Go to a respected academy you are more likely to get hired as well.
Question; the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education http://www.tcleose.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; site still refers to it as TCLEOSE . Where are you guys seeing it as TCOLE?

All three academy's near me require you to be placed on the roster as a candidate only when they are looking to hire you upon certification, or a associated department paying for you to attend has requested you attend, and has provided a sponsorship letter with the intent of providing a job should you pass and certify.

IOW, if you attend academy... PASS and receive your TCLEOSE cert.. you have a job waiting. I was not aware it was not that way across the board.

My understanding of the pre academy screening, testing, interviews, boards ect is that those chosen to attend = the number of new hires desired,, either by the department that runs the academy or the departments sending folks to it.

That's pretty much true for academies that are operated by the large agencies, e.g. Houston P.D.

However, many other academies in the state are independent of any agency and are associated with colleges. They accept self sponsored students as well as those sent by agencies. Self sponsored students attend the courses like they would any other college courses at their own expense with no guarantee of a job at the end. They go through the agency tests, interviews, boards, medical and agility screens, etc. only when they go through the hiring process of an agency they apply to. This usually happens after academy graduation and passing of the licensing exam.

texanjoker wrote:
Excaliber wrote:
nightmare69 wrote:I was talking to a young officer tonight at the football game I had to work. He was taking about how hard the police academy was. I said, it cannot be too hard, east Texas police academy
has a 93% pass rate. He told me that ETPA policy is any test grade under 80 is failing. He said if you make under a 80 on a test they give you 1 chance to retake it, if you make under a 80 on any other test they kick you out of the academy. Now I know that 70 and above is passing but it seems that ETPA turned that into 80 and above. So if this is all true then the reason the academy has a 93% pass rate is cause they kick people out before they have a chance to fail. In the gamer world we call that "stat padding". This really bothered me, the officer said a lot of people were kicked out in his class, they didn't flunk out but were kicked out. The 93% rating means nothing if this is true. Padded stats are a lie. Should I ask the academy about this? Every-time I talk to them they mention their pass rating, they are proud of it. What would y'all do?
The mindset that high performance standards are "unfair", and that rejecting people who fail to meet the academy's testing standards is "padding the stats" has no place in the law enforcement world.

The reality is that those who put in so little work that they scored below 80 on two tests failed to meet that academy's standards and did flunk out of that academy. The passing stats are not padded. They accurately tell you that 7% of the people who started didn't meet the academy's standards and 93% did.

If you want to succeed as a police officer, drop the gamer mentality. The street is not virtual, and mistakes can't be fixed by a restart. Reality is unforgiving. It takes consistently good decision making and superior performance to make it through to retirement.

Those who think meeting the lowest standards they had to meet in elementary school is good enough should find another line of work where messing up carries less severe consequences. A "70 is passing" mentality will get you killed, sued, or fired. On a really bad day it will get you all three.

Hiring agencies know the comparative expectations of the various academies and will almost certainly give preference to those who pass the tougher programs. They know that great officers man up and challenge themselves to meet the highest standards available because they know the best training is the best preparation for law enforcement work. Giving yourself an easier time in the academy will very likely earn you a tougher road to getting hired.

You have some things to think about.

Only you can determine if that makes sense for your situation. Assess whether you have what it takes to man up and join the 93% or if you're part of the 7%. Then do what is best for you.

and well said. Good background investigators will contact the academy a candidate graduated from to learn the real scoop and it isn't always good.

Very true.

I participated in our department's hiring board and read each background investigation in detail. What the instructors at the academy had to say wasn't always good, but it was always both helpful and enlightening.

nightmare69 wrote:The officer said the one who were kicked out were working full time when not at school and didn't have time to study. This is why I choose to quit my job so I can focus 100% of my free time on school. I imagine its going to be tough but Im going to do my best and apply myself and pray its enough.

Edit: The way the officer said about the fail ratio the students that were kicked out were not included in it. If that is true then the pass/fail percentage is invalid as it does not include students who were kicked out.

Graduation rate is generally accepted as the percentage of students who finished a program compared to the number that started that program. The interpretation cited above doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If those who failed to meet the standards and were dropped from the program are not included in the graduation rate, where did the 7% who didn't make it come from? A quick call to the academy should be able to clarify the issue and give you solid information that may help you with your decisions.

The academy is and should be hard, but it's not nearly as demanding as what the graduates will be doing when they get hired by an agency.

Working full time and trying to do the academy at night would be brutal and exhausting. You've made a good decision to make the academy program your day job so you can give it the attention it requires. It'll take everything you've got.

I wish you the best with whatever course of action you decide to take.

nightmare69 wrote:I was talking to a young officer tonight at the football game I had to work. He was taking about how hard the police academy was. I said, it cannot be too hard, east Texas police academy
has a 93% pass rate. He told me that ETPA policy is any test grade under 80 is failing. He said if you make under a 80 on a test they give you 1 chance to retake it, if you make under a 80 on any other test they kick you out of the academy. Now I know that 70 and above is passing but it seems that ETPA turned that into 80 and above. So if this is all true then the reason the academy has a 93% pass rate is cause they kick people out before they have a chance to fail. In the gamer world we call that "stat padding". This really bothered me, the officer said a lot of people were kicked out in his class, they didn't flunk out but were kicked out. The 93% rating means nothing if this is true. Padded stats are a lie. Should I ask the academy about this? Every-time I talk to them they mention their pass rating, they are proud of it. What would y'all do?

Whining that high performance standards are "unfair", and that rejecting people who fail to meet the academy's testing standards is "padding the stats" will get you nowhere in the law enforcement world.

The fact is that those who put in so little work that they scored below 80 on two tests failed to meet that academy's standards and did flunk out of that academy. The passing stats are not padded. They accurately tell you that 7% of the people who started didn't meet the academy's standards and 93% did.

If you want to succeed as a police officer, drop the gamer mentality. The street is not virtual, and mistakes can't be fixed by a restart. Reality is unforgiving. It takes consistently good decision making and superior performance to make it through to retirement.

Those who think meeting the lowest standards they had to meet in elementary school is good enough should find another line of work where messing up carries less severe consequences. A "70 is passing" mentality will get you killed, sued, or fired. On a really bad day it can get you all three.

Hiring agencies know the comparative expectations of the various academies and will almost certainly give preference to those who pass the tougher programs. They know that great officers man up and challenge themselves to meet the highest standards available because they know the best training is the best preparation for law enforcement work. Giving yourself an easier time in the academy will very likely earn you a tougher road to getting hired.

You have some things to think about.

Only you can determine what makes sense for your situation. Assess whether you have what it takes to man up and join the 93% or if you're part of the 7%. Then do what is best for you.

Excaliber wrote:
nightmare69 wrote:I was talking to a young officer tonight at the football game I had to work. He was taking about how hard the police academy was. I said, it cannot be too hard, east Texas police academy
has a 93% pass rate. He told me that ETPA policy is any test grade under 80 is failing. He said if you make under a 80 on a test they give you 1 chance to retake it, if you make under a 80 on any other test they kick you out of the academy. Now I know that 70 and above is passing but it seems that ETPA turned that into 80 and above. So if this is all true then the reason the academy has a 93% pass rate is cause they kick people out before they have a chance to fail. In the gamer world we call that "stat padding". This really bothered me, the officer said a lot of people were kicked out in his class, they didn't flunk out but were kicked out. The 93% rating means nothing if this is true. Padded stats are a lie. Should I ask the academy about this? Every-time I talk to them they mention their pass rating, they are proud of it. What would y'all do?
Whining that high performance standards are "unfair", and that rejecting people who fail to meet the academy's testing standards is "padding the stats" will get you nowehre in the law enforcement world.

The fact is that those who put in so little work that they scored below 80 on two tests failed to meet that academy's standards and did flunk out of that academy. The passing stats are not padded. They accurately tell you that 7% of the people who started didn't meet the academy's standards and 93% did.

If you want to succeed as a police officer, drop the gamer mentality. The street is not virtual, and mistakes can't be fixed by a restart. Reality is unforgiving. It takes consistently good decision making and superior performance to make it through to retirement.

Those who think meeting the lowest standards they had to meet in elementary school is good enough should find another line of work where messing up carries less severe consequences. A "70 is passing" mentality will get you killed, sued, or fired. On a really bad day it will get you all three.

Hiring agencies know the comparative expectations of the various academies and will almost certainly give preference to those who pass the tougher programs. They know that great officers man up and challenge themselves to meet the highest standards available because they know the best training is the best preparation for law enforcement work. Giving yourself an easier time in the academy will very likely earn you a tougher road to getting hired.

You have some things to think about.

Only you can determine if that makes sense for your situation. Assess whether you have what it takes to man up and join the 93% or if you're part of the 7%. Then do what is best for you.

nightmare69 wrote:I was talking to a young officer tonight at the football game I had to work. He was taking about how hard the police academy was. I said, it cannot be too hard, east Texas police academy
has a 93% pass rate. He told me that ETPA policy is any test grade under 80 is failing. He said if you make under a 80 on a test they give you 1 chance to retake it, if you make under a 80 on any other test they kick you out of the academy. Now I know that 70 and above is passing but it seems that ETPA turned that into 80 and above. So if this is all true then the reason the academy has a 93% pass rate is cause they kick people out before they have a chance to fail. In the gamer world we call that "stat padding". This really bothered me, the officer said a lot of people were kicked out in his class, they didn't flunk out but were kicked out. The 93% rating means nothing if this is true. Padded stats are a lie. Should I ask the academy about this? Every-time I talk to them they mention their pass rating, they are proud of it. What would y'all do?

The mindset that high performance standards are "unfair", and that rejecting people who fail to meet the academy's testing standards is "padding the stats" has no place in the law enforcement world.

The reality is that those who put in so little work that they scored below 80 on two tests failed to meet that academy's standards and did flunk out of that academy. The passing stats are not padded. They accurately tell you that 7% of the people who started didn't meet the academy's standards and 93% did.

If you want to succeed as a police officer, drop the gamer mentality. The street is not virtual, and mistakes can't be fixed by a restart. Reality is unforgiving. It takes consistently good decision making and superior performance to make it through to retirement.

Those who think meeting the lowest standards they had to meet in elementary school is good enough should find another line of work where messing up carries less severe consequences. A "70 is passing" mentality will get you killed, sued, or fired. On a really bad day it will get you all three.

Hiring agencies know the comparative expectations of the various academies and will almost certainly give preference to those who pass the tougher programs. They know that great officers man up and challenge themselves to meet the highest standards available because they know the best training is the best preparation for law enforcement work. Giving yourself an easier time in the academy will very likely earn you a tougher road to getting hired.

You have some things to think about.

Only you can determine if that makes sense for your situation. Assess whether you have what it takes to man up and join the 93% or if you're part of the 7%. Then do what is best for you.

nightmare69 wrote:I may be paying for a year to the police test website for practice test and study tips. I cannot find any law enforcement civil service test other than sample questions and ones from out of state, and the ones I did find are old. $25 bucks is a small price to pay and I dont see how it could hurt. Next month is when I will have to go take at least 1 test for now.

Out of state exams also have practice value.

Entry level tests are looking for basic skills and thinking ability, not state specific knowledge. Working through lots of these questions, even from out of state exams, and checking the answers to get a feel for how they are constructed and the kinds of answers they want will certainly improve your score on the actual test.

texanjoker wrote:
Excaliber wrote:I well understand your concerns and they're valid ones. However, before you give up your dream, put your thinking cap back on. There's more than one way to go about this.

Here's an approach that might work for you:

Keep your current job, take multiple tests for the large agencies, go to the interviews and other tests while still employed, and leave your current job only when you have a guarantee of employment (and quite likely a paid spot in the academy).

That worked for me.

Same here. I worked as a police dispatcher at a large agency for several years until I was old enough to be hired. That paid off as I knew the codes, radio, ect and was one part that I didn't need to be retrained on. To do that you need to be able to pass a typing test and can do some serious mutli tasking. It is also a job that is always open.

TJ's suggestion is another excellent idea. My son's best friend from childhood followed this path by working as a dispatcher for a sheriff's agency in New York and a city PD in Florida before getting hired as a deputy sheriff. He spent the required time as a jailer to earn a spot in patrol, where he's been very happy and highly successful in his work.

I well understand your concerns and they're valid ones. However, before you give up your dream, put your thinking cap back on. There's more than one way to go about this.

Here's an approach that might work for you:

Keep your current job, take multiple tests for the large agencies, go to the interviews and other tests while still employed, and leave your current job only when you have a guarantee of employment (and quite likely a paid spot in the academy).

That worked for me.

nightmare69 wrote:Got to talk to a young deputy at work last night that went through the academy. He said the week of Texas penal code and Juvenal week are the hardest. Out of 40 students 23 failed the penal code test before the grade curve. You can only fail 1 test, you fail 2 you are gone. Pray for me.

Remember there's no option here for avoiding that learning. If you want to be an LEO you have to know the thousands of points of law you will enforce.

If you start studying the law now and take texanjoker's advice on using the practice exams a week or two before the law material comes up, you'll be the star student in law and will breeze through the law weeks and the test. A side benefit is that doing really well in the academy impresses the boss and significantly increases your desirability for hiring.

If you spend the months before the academy just dreading doing all that studying and leave all that work until the law weeks like those 23 students in an earlier class did, especially if you're not one of those folks who can teach yourself nuclear physics in an evening, those weeks will be painful at best and you may lose a clean shot at the career you've decided on.

If you think about that for a bit I'll bet it won't take too long to arrive at the best choice here.

texanjoker wrote:
nightmare69 wrote:Haha I am one of those that has to fight to put on weight. At 29 I still have a high metabolism and if I start running I will drop some weight. I'm about 140-145lbs right now. I have a had time keeping on weight in the summer.

When it comes time for the Tcleose test, TCLEOSE TEST . COM This site, which is paid, gives you 1000's of practices questions on tests. I crammed for 3 days on this site and bam, completed my Tcleose test in about 29 minutes with a great score. It was well worth the 50 bucks or so I spent on it.

Before you buy nylon gear, check what the police academy allows. Now once you hit the field, if it is allowed I can say nylon is comfortable. Now the haters will complain that nylon looks too "tactical" and that is part of problem with leos blah blah....In reality it is comfortable and anybody that has worn a gun belt 8-12 hours a day needs whatever they can get to make it more comfortable. I also recommend, if your agency allows a back brace. I got mine from backupbrace.com. I don't know if anybody else makes one, but it really helps with my back injury. It attaches to the gun belt. I wear the bianchi accumold product and got it at GT's. Be wary of some of the nylon junk you find on ebay and other cheap er then dirt type of sites. For the holster you will also have to find what they want you to carry. I prefer the safariland level iii with the optional shroud. While I have never "fought" for my life over my gun, I have had one guy grab the gun. Two of my friends fought for their life for their gun and every bit of protection you can get is worth it.

This is good advice on all points.

Nylon is way more comfortable, easier to maintain, and less expensive in the long run.

Definitely don't go for discount gear. Stick with Bianchi or Safariland belts and gear. The few extra dollars in initial cost will more than pay back in not having to buy new belt gear every couple of years, or, even worse, have it fail in the field at a critical moment. Buying one good set that does what it's supposed to is much cheaper than buying 3 or 4 crummy ones that never give good performance from day 1.

I also concur on the Level 3 holster with the shroud. Yes, it takes more practice to become proficient with, but it's worth its weight in gold when you're rolling around on the ground with someone bigger and stronger than you.

It sounds like you're off to a good start.

You've received excellent advice from Gigag04 on exercise, study, and application materials gathering.

Work hard, study hard.

Remember you're a public servant, not a robocop, and keep in mind that the Constitution is the foundation of our laws rather than an impediment to law enforcement and you'll do fine.

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