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Purplehood wrote:

SlowDave wrote:I have considered the same and determined the following:
1. I won't shoot someone to retain personal property (though I may threaten)
2. I won't draw on someone who is holding a gun on me, ever.

If I am absolutely convinced that the person holding a gun on me intends to use it, what do I have to lose by drawing?

Nothing.

When are you ever "absolutely convinced" that the BG intends to shoot you? If I knew for a fact the guy was going to shoot me, well of course I'd take a shot, no matter how crappy the odds. Since I'd know the odds of NOT drawing are 100% that I'm getting shot. I am hypothesizing that the odds of getting shot during a mugging if I don't draw are LESS THAN 100%. Of course, I will increase those odds by a sizable amount when I bring a gun into the situation. Almost for sure at that point, someone's getting shot. Maybe me, maybe BG, maybe both... Lots of people get mugged and are later hole-free. I'm not saying it's a sure thing, and I'd rather avoid the situation, have a chance while the guy is distracted, etc., etc. But I'm saying, I don't want to try and outdraw a guy for $3 and the (my guess) < 20% chance that he'll shoot me after getting my wallet.

I do like the idea of looking over their shoulder and yelling "POLICE" though. I'm afraid if I had a mugger in a bad mood and I threw my wallet on the ground, he might just shoot me at that point to avoid any chance of me trying something while he bent down. If he was smart (unlikely), he'd suspect something at that point, and might just take a pre-emptive shot at me. Probably not, but... might work, might not.

AEA wrote:

SlowDave wrote:I have considered the same and determined the following:
1. I won't shoot someone to retain personal property (though I may threaten)
2. I won't draw on someone who is holding a gun on me, ever.

So what you are saying is that you will allow a perp to take your property and your gun and most probably shoot you with your own gun?

When did I say I'd let him take my gun? I'd let him take my property, all $3 I normally carry and all the cards I can call in 5 minutes later. Concealed is concealed. If he went to frisk me or in some other way was able to determine I had a gun and attempted to take it, I'd have to take some action, as at that point, the risk to my life has risen to the point that I am more willing to risk the possibility/likelihood of getting shot to maintain my weapon. If he turned or got distracted sufficiently for me to draw with reasonable likelihood of winning, I'd take it. But not while he's standing there focused on me with a gun aimed.

Drawing a gun on someone who is within 10 ft and already aimed at me and focused on me seems like a shortcut to the morgue to me. Okay, I might be "lucky" and go to the hospital and live through it, maybe paralyzed or something. I'd give up the $3 and credit cards and the 1% chance I would come out the winner if I drew in that situation.

KD5NRH wrote:

WarHawk-AVG wrote:A guy with a gun in hand ALWAYS beats the fastest draw

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefense ... 8117493932" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefense ... 0124821434" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefense ... 4646435945" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And that's just the month-to-date (and it's only the 6th now) of people successfully out-draw-and-shooting a drawn gun.

That's a bit weak, imho. Coming from another room with a drawn weapon and confronting criminals who are focused on other victims is not beating a drawn gun with your draw. And getting an opportunity when the BG is moving room to room to get your gun and attack him is also not it. And I'm not saying it's never happened. People also live through being hit by lightning, but I don't like those odds and prefer not to take them if I don't have to. You are welcome to do your own thing in that situation, I'm just stating what (I think) I'll do.

I have considered the same and determined the following:
1. I won't shoot someone to retain personal property (though I may threaten)
2. I won't draw on someone who is holding a gun on me, ever.

(Note: these are just my personal decisions; I don't propose that this is the limit of my legal rights. Goes to the point of my CHL instructor's recommendation to determine ahead of time in what situations you are willing to take someone's life.)

I couldn't have stopped this confrontation (as much as I know about it anyway), but the good guy lived through it and lives to fight another day. The only thing he could have realistically (& with acceptable risk) done with a gun is to shoot the guy after the fact while he's leaving the scene with the GG's money, and I don't think I could do that over some cash.

This is actually the situation I worry over the most, since it seems nearly indefensible. I realize that if I maintain "situational awareness" to the point of predicting an instant before, that the bad guy is going to attack and draw on me first, before he's actually taken any action worthy of having a gun in his face, I could avoid it, but that seems a bit superhuman for me, so... Even when he's running up from behind, he might have just realized he's late for something or seen someone messing with his car or friend just up the road and running to that. You still don't have the legal basis to pull a gun on him. Do you drop your wallet on the ground and try to draw on him while he bends over to pick it up? Risky just for some cash. On the other hand, you're depending on a criminal's "good nature" not to shoot you after you give him the money.

Tough situation. I'm also interested in others' thoughts on this.