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Geopagus wrote:My own personal opinion is having cuffs on your person and your not LE? Is potentially inviting trouble. However, there is no law that I am aware of which states you cannot.

If not concealed I couldn't agree with you more.

If concealed...and IF you can see some advantage to them per your lifestyle/self defense plan, then I see no downside to them. They'll just be heavy...and you'll probably never use them. But my pistol qualifies on that account.

You make a valid point though.

Renegade wrote:

srothstein wrote:For all of you who are truly anti-cuffs, let me pose a situation to you:

You have just come home and found the front door kicked in. You draw your weapon and your cell phone to call 911. As you are dialing, a man comes running out the front door towards you. You aim at him and tell him to stop. He complies, dropping the property he was carrying and raising his hands.

OK, you got him. Now what are you going to do with him?

Let him keep in running out the front door.

It is a very, very bad idea for someone with ZERO training in making a felony arrests, to try to cuff a suspect, much less while in possession of a gun.

You are talking about taking a situation where just letting him go (presumably with little to none of your valuables), and escalating it to a situation where you could get killed in a struggle while cuffing him.

No brainer - let him go.

Of course each person should react with respect to the totality of the situation at hand.

Everyone has a different idea about what they are willing to "shoot" over and not, even when the law allows for it.

From a purely tactical standpoint, if I had just come in the front door...I don't want an intruder running toward me to escape through it.

In the event the intruder indicates he is going to be compliant, then you would NOT physically cuff the person yourself (for the reasons you cited).

Instead, you would order the intruder to keep his hands visible (clasped behind his head), command him to sit on the floor facing away from you, command him to cross his legs. Explain that are you are going to toss the cuffs next to him and that he is to slowly put them on.

If he doesn't comply immediately:

Forcefully remind him that his only other option is to be shot until he is no longer considered a threat.

Now, I realize not everyone is "up to this"....but the alternative is to let him go, or hold him at gun point.

I have held one man at gun point in my life (a man caught breaking into my truck). He immediately dropped the screwdriver he had and put his hands up as I commanded. He was more than willing to follow my instructions for him to go to the back of the truck, put both hands on the tailgate spread apart...and then spread his feet apart.

Austin PD had 5 units pull up almost simultaneously, but it took 3-4 minutes for them to get there. It seemed like an eternity to me (and for him too I am sure). The call to PD was made by someone who witnessed the whole incident, but the officer I talked to said the report came in as "man with a gun".

Years later, thinking back on that...I sure wish I had a pair of cuffs that evening. The guy that I caught would have "jumped" into them and I could have lowered my weapon.

Again, I am NOT advocating CHL's go get a pair of cuffs. I am well aware of how tough it can be to cuff someone. The local LEO come to our dojo to get additional police tactics training.

I am just saying, if you have a pair at home you might be able to use them to your advantage in some situations.

USMC-COL wrote:

RubenZ wrote:So I got to thinking.

I don't like IWB. I like OWB carry and I always wear my shirt untucked or in winter a light jacket. BUT, what if one got a handcuff holster and placed it in front of their Gun Holster say like at the 2 o'clock position with handcuffs in it. That way if you accidentally showed any sheep would think you were just undercover because you appeared to be LEO and would be less inclined to call the COPS.

If your carry methods will easily compromise your concealment, change your carry methods. In an incident, cuffs may go to the totality of circumstances - "Was he out looking for trouble?" If you need to detain someone beyond presentation, you can almost always find something in the environment such as your belt, shoe laces, or the piece of 550 cord you just happen to have in your pocket.

Even with training...it is hard enough to cuff someone who is resisting. I don't know if you've ever tried that with a belt or shoestrings...but your subject would have to be compliant or unconscious.

DoubleJ wrote:

flintknapper wrote:I carry a pair about 75% of the time, but not for the reason you cited...and not because I think I am LEO.

so, the question no one else is going to ask is, "Then, why DO you carry the cuffs?"

not meant in an antagonistic tone, just curious is all.

Hi DoubleJ,

It is a fair question….and I take no offense to it.

I noticed my post seemed to be a bit of a “thread killer�, so I don’t mind explaining.

I will ask that everyone recognize, I am NOT encouraging or promoting the carry of handcuffs . I use them most often to balance the weight of a shoulder rig I carry, but I have found them to be a useful tool beyond what they were primarily designed for.

Let me take a moment to bore everyone with the reason I have handcuffs at all. It is not because I fancy myself LEO or want others to think I am. If I had wanted to be LEO… I would have done that 30 years ago.

A brother and sister in law on my wifes side of the family adopted an infant child. At about age 8 they were beginning to experience some problems with her. This grew worse over the next two years and they sought medical help.

Their daughter was diagnosed severe BiPolar/ODD. The coming years…despite medication, resulted in increased physical violence against her family and others. The police had been summoned dozens of times to remove her from the home temporarily.

A change in job required them to move from Tulsa, Okla. to Houston, TX. They knew that they would not be able to get the whole family moved without incident. They phoned me and asked if I would come to Tulsa and take “R� back with me, while they made plans for the move.

I told them I would be happy to…but wanted to talk to them about it first. We all knew the possibility of “R� having an episode and getting violent could happen on our trip back

With that in mind…. I required them to provide me with photocopies of both of their DL’s, a recent photo of “R�, and to sign a paper I had drawn up assigning “R� to me in “Loco Parentis� for the duration of one week.

I assured them that I would only restrain their daughter if absolutely necessary and in the most gentle way possible. They had no problem with this…and were relieved that a family member would be transporting her.


. The trip was uneventful and we had a wonderful time visiting the whole way back. I noticed during the trip…how well the added weight of the cuffs balanced my shoulder holster. My P-13 is all stainless steel and a double stack to boot, so it is no lightweight @ 3.25 lbs.

The week we had “R� as our guest was sometimes good, sometimes not. One evening my wife discovered that “R� had not been taking her medication (found it rat-holed in a dresser).

My polite request that she resume taking her medicine as prescribed was met with immediate hostility. After much cursing , posturing, and threats…she marched into our bathroom and locked her self in.

I gave some time to settle down and then tried to convince her to come out. That resulted in more of the same behavior, so I informed her that if she didn’t come out…she was going to spend the night in there. To which she replied “You can’t keep me in here� (many expletives deleted).

I told her “Well, actually I can�. I went and got the cuffs, put them on the door knobs like in the photo below and told her to let me know when she wanted to cooperate. About midnight she was ready.



She started back on her meds. and the rest of the time she was with us was great. I took her to Houston when it was time and had no further incidences. Unfortunately, things got worse for “R� and no amount of psychiatric help or medicine seemed to help much.

Currently, she has observed her last four birthdays in a correctional institution near Tennessee Colony and just got two more years added for striking a CO. We pray for her often. Her condition is not something she asked for or can control, she was just born with it, (or it developed).

So, that’s my sad handcuff story…and the reason I got them.

Since then, I have actually used them for reasons besides balancing my pistol.

On one occasion while out of town… we went out to dinner with other family members and friends. The restaurant served alcoholic beverages and since I was unsure if they were 51% or not (and not wanting to walk back to the car) I just chose to leave my pistol in the vehicle.

Since it was not my vehicle…I didn’t have a lock box. I pulled the cuffs out, put one end around the pistol, the other around the seat base and covered it with a jacket. Not a reason to carry cuffs, I know. It was sure handy however.



Another time I was going around the loop in Nacogdoches when I witnessed an accident. I stopped to see if I could help. A family in a mini-van had been hit from behind by a truck.

There was small amount of fuel leaking under the rear of the van and I told the driver about it. The passengers were anxious to get out of the vehicle but the sliding door and the passenger door were jammed shut against the door rails. The driver said to just break out the big window on the side and get the kids out. So that’s what I did. What did I use?



Again, not a reason to carry cuffs but they were handy.

I have used them to link together two coolers and generator in the back of a truck (hunting trip) so we could all go inside a sporting goods store and shop.

At home they could be tossed to an intruder instead of holding him at gunpoint, I know I’d rather put on cuffs than be shot.

God forbid you should have to enter a room in your house where you KNOW an intruder is. If I did…I would want to create a distraction. Toss the cuffs forcefully into the room to draw attention, then enter.

But, basically I’ve just kept them since I already had them. I have found no down side them (concealed) and have actually used them to my advantage. Not reasons for anyone to carry them, just an explanation why I have.

I am looking at a shoulder rig by Andrews Leather that has as an option…a sheath that will allow carry of a fixed blade knife on the ammo side. That would balance the rig very well too, and be of more use day to day.

Sure hope no asks why I would need that!

Sorry for the length, but you asked.

Flint.

RubenZ wrote:So I got to thinking.

I don't like IWB. I like OWB carry and I always wear my shirt untucked or in winter a light jacket. BUT, what if one got a handcuff holster and placed it in front of their Gun Holster say like at the 2 o'clock position with handcuffs in it. That way if you accidentally showed any sheep would think you were just undercover because you appeared to be LEO and would be less inclined to call the COPS.

Hi Ruben,

I am not aware of any laws that forbid you from carrying handcuffs concealed or otherwise. But, as others have already expressed....I don't think it is a good idea for the purpose you cited.

If you are trained in the use of handcuffs for restraint....and believe you might someday have a legitimate use for them, then feel free to carry them.

Be aware... that any BG that spots them on you is going to assume you are LEO. So, if he has any notion of doing you harm...then you will become the first target. The same holds true for open carry....even though I am a proponent for it.

Too, if you ever use a pair of handcuffs....you have effectively "arrested" that person and you become responsible for their safety.

I carry a pair about 75% of the time, but not for the reason you cited...and not because I think I am LEO.