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casingpoint wrote:Here's an old knife fighter's trick. Get a riveted folding knife that fits well in the hand and in which the top of the blade can be easily grasped between the thumb and middle finger. Put some graphite on the pivot joint and work the blade open and closed for until the resistance is almost gone. A knife so conditioned can be opened almost as quick as a switchblade by the mere use of the two aforementioned digits.

Some of the newer knives with screws instead of rivets might lend themselves to a "trigger job" in lieu of the graphite.

The majority of Lock-Back, Linerlock, or Axis-Lock knives can be opened in ways that will enable them to rival (if not exceed) the speed of a "switch blade". The determining factor is friction at the pivoting point of the blade.

There are numerous techniques that can be used (depending upon knife style, size, etc) to open a knife quickly, even though the manufacturer did not design/intend for them to do so.

I guess the next thing to be outlawed will be "techniques".

I would loved to have shown the "court" how quickly any of the Emerson CQC series knives can be opened by rotating them about the axis of the blade. Any notion that a "spring assisted" knife had any advantage would have flown out the window.

Our knife laws really need to be revisited.

This still “irks” me:

"Well, it has like a little button. It's a lever that's on the blade. And all you have to do is barely just touch it and it opens... Any time you can just go like this and it opens, it has a spring and that springs it into action and that's what makes it prohibited."

My Kershaw (thanks El Gato), opens with less effort (and blade arc) than many assisted knives. Still, it requires a good bit of initial movement before the spring takes over. In the photos below I didn’t try to move it out to the “ragged edge”…but simply stopped at a point where I felt comfortable the blade would stay in place.






Some models won’t open until you have initiated nearly 45 deg. of blade arc. If you drew a line off the base of this blade (before it starts curving)… it would end up being about 18 degrees. I could easily move it out to 20 deg. before the spring took over.

That is hardly “all you have to do is barely just touch it and it opens”!

KBCraig wrote:The narrative doesn't make it clear at all what the mechanism was. This could have been a "switchblade" if it was a "lever lock" or similar design. No one would really think of it as a switchblade, but it would meet the Texas definition if it had an assist, because the lever is on the handle.

But a normal assisted opening knife, as described by the officer on the stand, where the button or lever is on the blade, does not meet the statutory definition.

This is yet another reason to take a machete to PC chapter 46. Ooops -- a machete would be an illegal knife, wouldn't it?

After reading the PDF Chas. provided (thanks) I am left wondering: Did this guy have a lawyer?

It seems to me it would be a fairly simple task to point out the differences between a fully automatic knife and an "assisted" opening knife. Besides the technical issue of the "button/device" being located on the "handle" of a switchblade, an assisted opening knife must be manipulated through a certain range of it's blade arc (typically 15-20 degrees) before it will open.

The officer's (and apparently the court's) main objection seems to be the fact that the knife can be opened "quickly". Well.....whoop-dee-doo! I guarantee you I would have been there in front of the court demonstrating that virtually ANY knife designed to be opened "one handed" can be done so with great speed. It does NOT require a spring, torsion bar, or anything else.

Additionally, the vast majority of liner lock knives can be opened very quickly using techniques that exert centrifugal force about the center of the blade axis. They are NOT designed for this....but the fact remains that by using special techniques (known to nearly everyone) it is POSSIBLE. Are we to ban ALL knives of this design because its "possible" to open them quickly. What about "fixed blade" knives? There is nothing quicker to deploy than a fixed blade (if speed is the objection).

I would wager that the officer carries some type of a utilitarian folder. I would love to see what it is, because chances are excellent I could take it and open it as fast as the assisted knife he objects to. That might prove a little embarrassing in court, but hopefully serve to educate the judge.

The penal code addressing knives (in Texas) is in serious need of revamping. Ridiculous IMO!

iratollah wrote:

flintknapper wrote:I would gladly go to court over it.

Would you be willing to spend the night in jail to tell your story? That was the option that NYPD offered my son over a $35 knife.

Is their police department willing to be sued for false arrest?

You relinquished "principle" over an officers mistaken idea of what a "gravity knife" is... and gave up $35.00 to boot. He knew you would.

casingpoint wrote:

I am much more worried about getting diced up by a razor box-cutter

Slashing with a razor sharp knife is a proven technique among the street-wise. You want to kill, you stab. You want to be left alone, you slice and dice. The horror of seeing their own flesh flayed open is just too much for most people to maintain focus. Now, with the ready availability of box cutters you don't even have to bother with a "real" knife. On account of their efficacy, I would not be surprised to see box cutters singled out as prohibited weapons in some states.

The karambit appears to combine elements of the box cutter and the knife into one tool:


If you find yourself in a real tight without a real weapon, a beer bottle broken over the bar or your opponet's head makes one heck of a good impromptu slashing instrumentality. I'm sure some here will recall the old Houston icehouse protocol of yore. Airline, Market St., Telephone Road, Uvalde Road, Old Highway 90, Black Cat Ridge across the San Jacinto River from Humble, etc.

The Karambit has been around for a long time (in Indonesia). It's just now making headway in the States. The west is not really a "knife culture".

The Karambit is meant to resemble a "tiger claw" and is a devastating weapon. There are some very nice folding units out there now. They take a good amount of training to be effective with... and you will not do well with one if you are squeamish about getting "up close" to your opponent.

But, in the hands of someone that knows how to use it, it is a deadly tool.

Liko81 wrote:

SCone wrote:Since tha law states...

Switchblade knife means any knife that has a blade that folds, closes, or retracts into the handle or sheath, and that:
(A) opens automatically by pressure applied to a button or other device located on the handle; or
(B) opens or releases a blade from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal force.

Almost anything that helps open a knife could make the knife illegal.

Yep. because an assisted-opening knife requires applying pressure to the BLADE, not the handle, it doesn't fit the legal definition. However, if your knife can be opened by "flinging" it towards the ground, you are in possession of a switchblade. Virtually any knife with a thumb stud or other one-handed opening mechanism can be made to do this if you really want to.

If I really had to, I could drive a nail with a Crescent Wrench. That doesn't make it a "hammer" though...either by design or description.

Has common sense left the country? Who writes these laws?

lunchbox wrote:back to the subject at hand did we ever get any documentation to support this claim

Nope!

iratollah wrote:If a LEO were determined to cause difficulties for you, most every assisted open knife can also be classified as a gravity knife. Most of mine can be flicked open without using the thumb stud. I actually try to work them in enough that they can open that way. Go ahead and give it a try with yours and you'll see what I mean. Of course the longer blade assisted openers are easier to operate as a gravity knife.

My son had his small SOG confiscated at the Statue of Liberty, officer said it was a gravity knife, and after about 20 tries he did get it to open. Told my son if he didn't want to surrender the knife that he could tell his story to the judge in the morning. I hope that NYC officer is enjoying his new knife.

This is true of most folding knives...(provided they are not manufactured with tight tolerances)...and certainly not unique to assisted opening knives.

The simple fact that certain knives CAN be opened (by employing "special techniques") is not a legitmate reason to classify/regard them as "gravity knives". Unless the "design" of the knife is such that its purpose is to allow opening it by means of gravity (as in a butterfly knife) then....I would gladly go to court over it.

I feel confident I could point out the obvious differences to any reasonable judge. Hopefully, the case would be settled quickly and with prejudice toward the officer.

We are surrounded by objects everyday that can be used in a manner that they were not intended to be. I submit that the courts would be choked with cases if common sense and intelligence were not at rule.

So, for me....if some uninformed/misguided person wants to press the issue...I'll be more than happy to oblige. Know the law and stand up for your rights!

lunchbox wrote:

flintknapper wrote:

lunchbox wrote:i bet what happened is someone was caught and arrested with an assisted open knife and word got around that it was illegal cuz some liberal cop felt that it should be and thats the way he enforces it and if you dont know any better one will just go to jail without a word if in fact this is what happened we need a slick lawyer to take this case and put these cops behind a desk
i thought LEO were educated on what the law is and expected to enforce it as such
but it would seem to me they do what they want

Gosh, how did you arrive at all this from the little bit posted, you're being kinda rough on the "cops" don't you think?

I'd be much surprised if this were the case.

think what you will but i have been told myself that i was under arrest for premeditated murder when i had not killed anyone nobody had died my experience with LEO has been less than pleasant and i feel that they do enforce the law the way they feel it should be

I mean't no disrespect to you in my earlier post. In fact, I have my own "bad cop" story....but I refuse to paint all LEO with the same broad brush...and will not use this forum or any other venue to publicly condemn an entire group of hard working, dedicated professionals, that seems patently unfair to me.

Your point is well taken, but I doubt the OP's post is the result of some "liberal" LEO executing his duty in an over zealous fashion.

If you would like to share more of your story, or venting will in any way help, then please PM me, I am all ears.

Thanks,

Flint.

lunchbox wrote:i bet what happened is someone was caught and arrested with an assisted open knife and word got around that it was illegal cuz some liberal cop felt that it should be and thats the way he enforces it and if you dont know any better one will just go to jail without a word if in fact this is what happened we need a slick lawyer to take this case and put these cops behind a desk
i thought LEO were educated on what the law is and expected to enforce it as such
but it would seem to me they do what they want

Gosh, how did you arrive at all this from the little bit posted, you're being kinda rough on the "cops" don't you think?

I'd be much surprised if this were the case.

Roshi wrote:Now that Texas has decided that assisted opening knives are switchblades, have you seen any changes in sales of these knives or how law enforcement treats them?

Would you support making switchblades legal in Texas? I would. They are tools just like guns and there are no bad knives as there are no bad guns.

Huh?


Please cite your source for this statement.