Flatland2D wrote:flintknapper wrote:
My trouble with it (the way this is written), is that the CHL holders first thought was to reach for his weapon. Absent any visual clues (weapon in the hand of the other driver, reaching into his pocket, etc..), or lacking a clear verbal threat, then one's first reaction should not be to "prepare to draw".
I'm interested to hear input from other members if they were in a situation like Mr. Hale's. Let's say some other driver is being a jerk and you unknowingly do something to make him mad. He gets out and begins approaching your car unarmed, but his size alone is a little threatening. He doesn't look like he's coming to apologize. At what point would you feel for your gun, or draw (assuming if you don't stop him he will attack you)?
I personally don't see anything wrong with
discretely feeling for your gun if you can do so without drawing attention and in a non-threatening manner. If you wait till the attacker is bludgening you to death to feel for your gun you'd probably be lucky to get a shot off. I know retreat should be your first plan of action, but what if you're stuck in traffic, or your car was disabled in an accident with the attacker?
Good points about the OC spray. I really need to look into getting myself and my wife some of that.
Great question, certainly an honest one...and one that most of us have pondered. There could be many variables involved, but for the sake of this scenario, lets just go with what we have. The core question is:
When (in this scenario) would you draw your weapon or prepare to do so?
My answer:(When limited to the information above is...) NOT AT ALL.
So far, all we know is that: He's being a "jerk" (in our opinion), he's bigger than us, he's unarmed and he's approaching us. Where you get into trouble is when you "
Assume if you don't stop him he will attack you".
Heck, lets just say you were right! We'll go ahead and
add to the scenario that: Your wife, girlfriend, children or other loved one(s) are in the vehicle with you. You can not retreat because of traffic all around you. The "jerk" indeed...walks right up to your car window and without saying a word...slaps you across the face with an open hand.
Well..then......., we're "good to go" now right?
NOPE! If you "pop" the guy under these circumstances...then you'd better have a pretty slick lawyer, 'cause he's going to need to convince a jury that the definition of "disparity of force" is the same as YOU see it.
Lets change the scenario a little: It's now night time, your vehicle is boxed in, three guys get out of a vehicle and approach from behind you. You can make out a baseball bat in the hands of one of them. The other two split up, one goes to the passenger side of your vehicle, the other hangs back. The one with the bat suddenly shows up at your window, taps on it with the bat, demands that you turn over your wallet or he will "smash your head in".......
I hope you can see the difference. In any case, it will boil down to: What would another reasonable and prudent person do...AND whatever case law or precedents apply.
The fact is, carrying a deadly weapon only allows for the use of that weapon in a very narrow set of circumstances. You can't (legally) pull that "hog leg" just because you're about to take a "butt whipping" (as in the first case). There would need to be the threat or reasonable probability of
serious bodily injury or death (as in the second case).
You can't (legally) shoot someone...or even display your weapon just because: You're mad, You're feelings are hurt, He was in the wrong, He started it..or because he called you out on the concrete.
Until Texas changes it's laws to make it legal to meet force with force, and no longer requires "duty to retreat" then you're best off leaving your weapon holstered.. except under the gravest of extremes.
One thing I want to make perfectly clear: There is no greater proponent for the "right" to self defense than I. I'm not telling anyone when or when not to protect yourself, I'm just asking that everyone "think it through".
If ever the time comes when you absolutely need to pull your weapon in defense of your life then
don't hesitate. Just make sure you're right.
The beauty of a site like this is that it allows us to discuss and contemplate what actions might be appropriate for a given threat. I have come to the conclusion that "day in and day out"...simple awareness, using my head, using verbal skills, common courtesy and respect for my fellow man...serves me best.
A gun is a great tool to have. No doubt, it can add a powerful final layer to ones personal protection plan. It should however, be the last thing employed if circumstance allows.
Thats my take on it. Sorry for the length.
Flint.
I certainly respect and value your opinion/position in this matter and hope to learn something from it.
