TexasCHLforum.com

shawn wrote:chamberc, respectfully as the OP can you not respond to this post anymore. You obviously have your own agenda.

Respectfully, I have no idea what agenda I could possibly have. What agenda could their be about a cut and dry issue? This is a public forum and you asked a question and got answers.

The bottom line is, if you enter and do not see, and are not aware of a legally posted 30.06 sign, then you have not been notified and can legally carry.

If you are aware of a sign at any entrance, you can not legally carry.

There is no discussion, or argument regarding the situation as you posed the question. Since there is nothing to discuss, you don't have to worry about me replying.

Cheers!

mr surveyor wrote: You can now have the last word

surv

Thanks!

mr surveyor wrote:o.k.... one last attempt here...

If the original post was:

Assuming that the number 9 has a square root, what it the square root of the number 4?

Then:

Would the appropriate answer be "3"? I don't think so.


Giving an "answer" to a question that was not asked, is, in my humble opinion, not very constructive.

just my opinion

surv

One last attempt here, the original poster asked "I was going into HEB hospital a few weeks ago and I noticed a 30.06 sign on one door and not on another. I wonder what would happen in that instance if you went in the non-posted door (and got caught concealing)."

He didn't specify the purpose of the question was to ignore part of the information he provided.

So to help with your analogy, he got the exact answer to the question he asked, until he later clarified "what I meant".

It isn't worth arguing about, but the original poster originally asked what would happen if you were caught carrying after enter a building where you noticed a 30.06 sign but entered through a door without one.

mr surveyor wrote:

chamberc wrote:

shawn wrote:

mr surveyor wrote:I'm still not sure what this has to do with the general chl public unknowingly entering a building through an un-posted entrance. Shawn, the oroginal poster said the following:

"I was going into HEB hospital a few weeks ago and I noticed a 30.06 sign on one door and not on another. I wonder what would happen in that instance if you went in the non-posted door (and got caught concealing). they were about 100 ft from each other."


What I read from this is that he, Shawn, say the posting on a door other than the one he entered, and asked what would happen if "you" (I assume meaning anyone else) entered the same building unaware of the sign. I think it's a verey good question, and one easily answered by the law requiring one to be informed.

If he had said in the original post "... I wonder what would happen in that instance if I went in ...." then you have a differrent argument as to whether or not he was actually properly informed.


surv

you are absolutely correct! That is what I meant. What if you went in a door the was not posted, and another door was posted. Assume you did not know that the other door was posted. That is the question.

If you're supposing in that situation, you haven't been properly notified. However, in reality, you have seen the sign and have been notified.

did you actually read the question??? I believe that Shawn said the he did in fact see the sign on another door himself. I don't think he was asking about whether or not he would personally be grilled about carrying into the building. I believe his question was directed towards any innocent chl holder that entered the poorly posted building without knowledge of the signage on other entrances.


sheesh... I give up

surv

Did you actually read the answer? That is why I said "in that situation" you haven't been properly notified.

Just because you don't like an answer, doesn't mean it isn't correct.

shawn wrote:

mr surveyor wrote:I'm still not sure what this has to do with the general chl public unknowingly entering a building through an un-posted entrance. Shawn, the oroginal poster said the following:

"I was going into HEB hospital a few weeks ago and I noticed a 30.06 sign on one door and not on another. I wonder what would happen in that instance if you went in the non-posted door (and got caught concealing). they were about 100 ft from each other."


What I read from this is that he, Shawn, say the posting on a door other than the one he entered, and asked what would happen if "you" (I assume meaning anyone else) entered the same building unaware of the sign. I think it's a verey good question, and one easily answered by the law requiring one to be informed.

If he had said in the original post "... I wonder what would happen in that instance if I went in ...." then you have a differrent argument as to whether or not he was actually properly informed.


surv

you are absolutely correct! That is what I meant. What if you went in a door the was not posted, and another door was posted. Assume you did not know that the other door was posted. That is the question.

If you're supposing in that situation, you haven't been properly notified. However, in reality, you have seen the sign and have been notified.

HankB wrote:

chamberc wrote:Think about the line of questions "Mr. OP, were you aware that business XYZ had a 30.06?". At this point, Mr. OP can either lie or (hopefully)admit he was aware.

He can
a) decline to take the stand, as his attorney would have already established that there was NO sign at the entrance he used;
b) claim the 5th Amendment;
c) explain that he THOUGHT the venue might ONCE have been posted, but upon looking carefully at the entrance and seeing no compliant sign conspicuously posted, he came to the very reasonable conclusion that management had changed their policy.

To which the prosecutor says "Here is the OP's IP record of posting on the TexasCHLForum.com site, showing he was aware of the legally posted sign.

mymojo wrote:Isn't the operative word in this scenario "hospital"?

Hospitals are no different from any other place of business. They must be posted 30.06.

mr surveyor wrote:I think that the term "visible to the public" means at the entrance where public access is expected. It may be on the front door of the hospital, but if it's not on the back entrance that is more accessible to public parking, then it's a non-issue.

The general consensus in the legal community does not agree. If the CHL holder is aware of a 30.06 sign at a business, then they are knowingly violating the posting.

It isn't something that has been tested, so whoever has to draw or shoot in such a posted location will be the test case.

Again, if you don't reveal your weapon, it would be of course a non-issue, but in this particular case the OP is aware and has made permanent record of his/her awareness. The bottom line is, the law does not specify "every entrance" so, like so much of our law, it will have to be interpreted at the time of trial.

The issue also becomes, sure, you might be right, but it might cost you a lot of $$$ to have a moral victory.

Another analogy would be, what if I exited a road, so as not see the speed limit sign and then re-entered said roadway. Does that sign apply to me?

Think about the line of questions "Mr. OP, were you aware that business XYZ had a 30.06?". At this point, Mr. OP can either lie or (hopefully)admit he was aware.
Then it is up to they jury/judge to decide if this awareness to prohibt confirmed written notice had been given.


Take for instance, Grapevine Mills Mall. Our family enters it every time through "The Children's Place" store, and I know 100% without a doubt Grapevine Mills mall isn't posted 30.06.

HankB wrote:A valid sign "is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public."

If it's not visible from the normal entrance you use, it doesn't meet the ordinary meaning of "conspicuous."

That a sign is posted elsewhere, hundreds, possibly thousands of feet away, is irrelevant unless it can be proven that you knew the venue was posted, however imperfectly.

That being said, in this case, he does know.

PS. Concealed is Concealed.

shawn wrote:I agree with what you are saying, I just wonder if you would end up with some sort of hassel. you could see the sign from the non-posted door, although some with poorer vision may not have been able to read it.

It's a matter of if you want to be the test case. In your case, you've personally seen the sign and have admited to such online for all time. In a court case, your statement shows you know.

shawn wrote:I was going into HEB hospital a few weeks ago and I noticed a 30.06 sign on one door and not on another. I wonder what would happen in that instance if you went in the non-posted door (and got caught concealing). they were about 100 ft from each other.

All entrances don't have to be posted. Only it has to be posted and visible to the public.

"Written communication" means either:
(1) a card or "other document" that has written language "identical" to the following:

"Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun;" or

(2) A sign posted on the property that:
(a) "includes" the above language in both English and Spanish;
(b) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(c) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Thus, according to the statute, a proper §30.06 sign must have language identical to that quoted above, and the sign must be in both English and Spanish. The letters on the sign must be block letters and they must be at least one inch in height. They must also be of "contrasting colors." Lastly, the sign must be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

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