TexasCHLforum.com

"If you've got nothing hide, what's the problem?"

Law Enforcement has an extremely difficult job. Some cops like Txinvestigator take pride in their honesty and fairness. I feel those are in the majority.

You've also got some that feel they need to enforce the law "at any cost". Ever watch the Shield? Those cops are out there; I've met them.

In my previouis post, I talked about having an officer paw though my belongings in what I believed was an illegal search. I was speeding, sure, but had no alcohol on my breath, and passed a field sobriety test. An officer found a bottle that looked like a beer bottle and was ready to arrest me for an open container violation. When it became clear that the bottle never contained alcohol (it smelled like rootbeer) he backed off.

I was driving home, late at night from a rock concert when I was 17. I was a pretty good kid at 17, but, like other kids, I dressed like a rebellious kid. Long hair, ratty clothes, etc.
About halfway home, my friend and I got pulled over by a CHP officer. (I was living in california at the time) I was pretty sure I was doing the speed limit.
When I asked why I was pulled over, the officer said, "He'd be asking the questions, and to shut up."
He pulled both of us out of the car forcefully, and told us, "You kids can't be up to any good in mommy's car this late at night."
He then told us he smelled an odor of alcohol and marijuana in the vehicle and that he would search it. (This was Male Bovine Excrement as I have never smoked pot in my life, and neither of us were drinking)

The officer then tore my car apart. He tore my seats, tore the heading, soiled my interior with muddy footprints. He stole my friends' walkman.

When he found nothing, he was genuinely suprised. "I know you kids have something in this car, and you're getting away with it because I can't find it. It's not often that someone puts something over on me." and he let us go.

I could tell you more stories, but it really isn't necessary.
Unless an officer has some type of suspicion of some wrongdoing, I'm not going to give him a chance to find something in which to arrest me for.
Like I said, most cops are honest. I've had plenty of good experiences with law enforcement. My several bad experiences have permanantly soured me.

There ARE crooked cops, and I have met them. Not everyone that puts on a badge is a good person. That's why we have the rights we have, and that's why we should excersise them.
Rights, like muscles need excersise, otherwise they wither and die.

(off soapbox)

txinvestigator wrote:

nitrogen wrote:Now what a lot of officers will do is team up. One will ask you to step out of the car, and hope you leave your door open. His partner, while you aren't paying attention, will start to paw through your belongings.

and you base this opinion on what? LEO's cannot just "paw" through your belongings, and I know of none who do so illegally.

nitrogen wrote: If he finds anything, he will either claim it's in plain sight.

Are you saying they will perform an illegal search and then lie about how they discovered it? And you didn't finish your sentence, "either claim its in plain site" or what?

It's not opinion, it's personal experience, although not in this state, it happened in Arizona. A DPS officer found a bottle at the bottom of a trashbag and asked me if I had been drinking alcohol. (I was speeding, and admitted it) I asked him how he found the bottle and he said it was in the cupholder, when it was not. It was an IBC Root Beer bottle that looked like a beer bottle.

Long story short, it was his word against mine, and my word was worth less when I brought the issue up to his superiors.

TXinvestigator, I can appreciate what LEO's do for us everyday, but they are not all honest, especially when they think they can get away with it with a 17 year old kid. Everyone thinks they are honest, but that doesn't mean everyone *IS* honest.

nitrogen wrote:In some places, if you specifically don't tell an officer he doesn't have permission to search, he might search, and it might hold up

. In all places, he does not need permission if he has one of the other exceptions. If not, I don't know of any officer who is willing to risk federal civil rights charges, loss of job and perjury charges to illegally search your vehicle.

It happens daily. Just ask Dallas police Chief David Kunkle.
Some less-than-honest police officers will ruin it for the majority.

kauboy wrote:I asked a similar question to a Constable's assistant who does ride alongs. I asked about probable cause and what constitutes it. I was informed that if you are pulled over by an officer, that alone could constitute probable cause. And if an officer wishes to search your vehicle, you have no immediate legal recourse. You simply have to let them, and then file a claim/lawsuit/whine session later on. Has anybody else ever gotten a different answer?

He'd like to believe that. It's just not true.

If an officer sees anything in plain sight, that doesn't constitute a search. For instance, if you have a bag of weed on your front seat, he can grab it and arrest you for it. Same thing if he smells the smell.

Now what a lot of officers will do is team up. One will ask you to step out of the car, and hope you leave your door open. His partner, while you aren't paying attention, will start to paw through your belongings. If he finds anything, he will either claim it's in plain sight. In some places, if you specifically don't tell an officer he doesn't have permission to search, he might search, and it might hold up.

If you're worried about this for whatever reason (doesn't matter why, it's your right) specifically tell the officer you do not consent to a search. If you step out of your car, close and lock the door, and specifically tell the officer that you do not consent to any searches.

Now, this doesn't apply if the officer gets probable cause by some other method, like, if he feels you're driving impared, for instance.

It depends on what you get pulled over for. Just having a busted taillight isn't probable cause. Reckless driving might be, especially if you fail a sobriety test.

This is just my civillian understanding of the law, I'm sure the lawyers and officers will correct bits and pieces, which will just futher my education on the subject!

No.