TexasCHLforum.com

G.A. Heath wrote:To summarize the results of this thread
1: TSRA is not going to do anything for OC at this time, its not part of their agenda because there is not enough interest in their membership.

How do you know this? How is this being determined? How was this determined for Employeer Parking Lot and SCCC?

G.A. Heath wrote: 2: TSRA will not appose a GOOD OC bill (Last years drafted legislation does not qualify as good), but will appose a bad one.

How will TSRA know if it is a GOOD or BAD OC bill? Charles has stated, and I am assume this to be true for other TSRA staffers, that they cannot and will not review and comment

G.A. Heath wrote: 3: OCDO Has made personal attacks on legislators, TSRA staff, ect. and as a result has hurt their efforts in the future.

O.K.??? Not sure what this has to do with the OP.

G.A. Heath wrote: 4: A Texas based organization is needed because: A: Texans don't want to be told what to do by people from out of state. B: It has more political potential.

This was not true for Employee Parking Lot or SCCC, but please sign me up as member #2! (assuming you are member 1)

G.A. Heath wrote: 5: SCCC may not be a Texas based organization but after the Virginia Tech attack the governor indicated he would support such legislation so it gets a better position than OC along with other reasons).

I believe the governer also indicated his support of OC last year.

G.A. Heath wrote: 6: Its too late to get the TSRA involved in this years OC movement, even if the membership showed major support for it, so we need to quit beating that dead horse.

OC carry will be pursued in 2011, even Charles recognizes this. How will TSRA respond if a legislator asks for their review or opinion on a draft bill?

Thanks and Have a Nice Day!

Charles L. Cotton wrote: I suspected this was your goal; now it's confirmed.

I apologize if that goal was unclear. I would appreciate any suggestions to my original post, especially the sentence below that would have made this clearer:

"I am a TSRA member and I request that TSRA support open-carry in the 2011 legislative session."

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
I do not know how I can be more clear; TSRA will not take on open-carry until and unless a substantial majority of our members want us to expend tremendous political capital to do so. If and when they do, then we will put it on our political agenda and it will be handled as a regular part of our two year cycle. I said this in 2009, so it should come to no surprise to anyone.

Again I appologize, I guess I am not being very clear on this item either, but will try a third time. How was it determined that "a substantial majority of our members" wanted TSRA to pursue Employee Parking Lot and SCCC? Is it possible for Texas OC to mimic these items to determine that majority?

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Mr. Heath is trying to organize a Texas-based effort to pass OC, without resorting to the use of faulty tactics used last session. You want to "lobby" TSRA and try to get us to take on OC in 2011 and abandon methods that have proven successful for many years. It appears to me that Mr. Heath's goals and yours are incompatible, but that's not my call.

I'm not really sure what Mr. Heath's goals are so currently it is not possible for me to determine if my goals are compatible with his are not. However, if Mr. Heath wants to establish a Texas-based effort to pass OC, count me in and let me know how I can help!

Thanks and Have a Nice Day!

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Conagher wrote:

G.A. Heath wrote:Due to computer issues I have not had much time for this since Saturday. I am willing to step up and do something, not because I want to open carry (because I don't) but because I feel it is important.

One thing I am reading Charles as saying is that we need a Texas based group/organization to get involved, I personally doubt we will see anything this session as time is running out, but in order to facilitate a Texas organization I registered a domain and setup some forums. I was wanting to wait and get things cleaned up and a logo of some sort in place but I will go public with it now. Should a Texas based organization form and prove themselves organized I will transfer the domain to them. I will even host it as long as I can afford to. Now who else is willing to step up to the plate and do something besides demand someone else do something? The website is http://txopencarry.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In fact if someone drafts a GOOD bill I will even contact my legislators and politely ask them to support it after thanking them for the work they have done so far.

Thanks G.A. Heath.

I am still struggling with this “Texas based organization” so maybe you could help clarify since you seem to also promote this concept.

The way I am interpreting the suggestion is to create a Texas based organization which is separate and distinct from our already existing Texas based 2A organization (TSRA). Is this correct? And what would the charter of this organization be? From the discussion it appears the charter would be to promote OC to TSRA members until enough support is garnered that TSRA decides to address the issue. Then what happens? Does this separate organization disappear and turn everything over to TSRA at that point?

I am honestly unclear of the suggestion so any help to clarify would be appreciated.

As for a draft bill; Rep. Debbie Riddle’s staff already drafted one last session so there is really no need to create a separate one. I have no idea at this point if she plans to submit it next session. I have asked Charles in a previous post if he would kindly review and provide any suggestions just as he did for OpenCarry.org draft bill but I have received no response from him on this. So I would appreciate if you could follow through with your commitment and politely ask for their support of Rep. Riddle’s draft bill.

Thanks and Have a Nice Day!

I don't know if you are serious with this question or not. If so, the clear intent is to act on my year old suggestion that OC be promoted by a Texas-based organization rather than Virginia-based OpenCarry.org. Are you seriously asking about charters? If so, why? Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I see no indication the proposal is to lobby TSRA or TSRA members. Rather, it appears to me Mr. Heath is suggesting that a Texas-based organization be formed to promote OC in a responsible and non-confrontational manner.

I cannot and will not participate in drafting an OC bill unless it is for TSRA or NRA. I previously responded to the atrocious bill drafted by OpenCarry.org and made suggestions on how it should approach modifying current statutes. I did not offer specific language, nor will I unless we (TSRA or NRA) take on this project. If we do, it won't be in 2011 since we work on a 2 year cycle.

Chas.

Hello Charles, thanks for the response.

To answer your question; Yes, I am seriously asking about the charter, and here’s why:

I and I’m sure most others on this forum believe the best chance (some may even believe the only chance) of getting OC in Texas is for TSRA to sponsor it. So the immediate goal is to get TSRA to sponsor this effort. And as you have stated many times in one form or another;

Charles L. Cotton wrote:“ … we respond to the needs and wishes of our members”.

So if we form an organization “to promote OC”, to whom do we promote it? If we are to accomplish the goal to have TSRA sponsor the effort, then there appears to be only one answer based on your responses, TSRA members. If I am not looking at this correctly, then please enlighten me because I am honestly confused. I will be happy to help start another organization if that is what is needed, I’m just not sure what to do –“promote OC” is pretty generic and not really sure what would be done beyond what is already being done. However, I am absolutely open to suggestions.

Something that may be helpful and I asked this previously is if you can point me to a model; Employer Parking Lot item for example. How was this promoted to TSRA members and how was the feedback established to ensure the majority of members were supportive of this? Maybe the Texas OC effort can mimic this activity.

I am not sure how to even ask about SCCC since they are not a “Texas-based” organization; but if you think something there is applicable, maybe like how TSRA member feedback was solicited to ensure the majority of members supported this, then possibly this is something we can mimic also.

I am with all sincerity looking for help on this!

Thanks and Have a Nice Day!

G.A. Heath wrote:Due to computer issues I have not had much time for this since Saturday. I am willing to step up and do something, not because I want to open carry (because I don't) but because I feel it is important.

One thing I am reading Charles as saying is that we need a Texas based group/organization to get involved, I personally doubt we will see anything this session as time is running out, but in order to facilitate a Texas organization I registered a domain and setup some forums. I was wanting to wait and get things cleaned up and a logo of some sort in place but I will go public with it now. Should a Texas based organization form and prove themselves organized I will transfer the domain to them. I will even host it as long as I can afford to. Now who else is willing to step up to the plate and do something besides demand someone else do something? The website is http://txopencarry.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In fact if someone drafts a GOOD bill I will even contact my legislators and politely ask them to support it after thanking them for the work they have done so far.

Thanks G.A. Heath.

I am still struggling with this “Texas based organization” so maybe you could help clarify since you seem to also promote this concept.

The way I am interpreting the suggestion is to create a Texas based organization which is separate and distinct from our already existing Texas based 2A organization (TSRA). Is this correct? And what would the charter of this organization be? From the discussion it appears the charter would be to promote OC to TSRA members until enough support is garnered that TSRA decides to address the issue. Then what happens? Does this separate organization disappear and turn everything over to TSRA at that point?

I am honestly unclear of the suggestion so any help to clarify would be appreciated.

As for a draft bill; Rep. Debbie Riddle’s staff already drafted one last session so there is really no need to create a separate one. I have no idea at this point if she plans to submit it next session. I have asked Charles in a previous post if he would kindly review and provide any suggestions just as he did for OpenCarry.org draft bill but I have received no response from him on this. So I would appreciate if you could follow through with your commitment and politely ask for their support of Rep. Riddle’s draft bill.

Thanks and Have a Nice Day!

Charles L. Cotton wrote: I think you're right. It'll be the same group that alienated every staff member and Representative in the Capitol and managed to taint the entire issue. I'm equally sure they will again blast TSRA and claim that we oppose OC equating TSRA's lack of involvement as opposition.

Thanks Charles. I appreciate that you recognize the risk. How would you propose we mitigate this risk?

Charles L. Cotton wrote: So it's fine to talk about OC and whether or not TSRA's involvement is beneficial or necessary, but the reality is that we respond to the needs and wishes of our members.

I understand and agree. The purpose of the post was to stimulate member response to TSRA for those in favor of pursuing Texas Open Carry. I also very much like SA-TX suggestion to include a write-up and ask for feedback in the TSRA newsletter. There has been quite a bit of activities surrounding OC nationally, internationally and of course with a neighboring State and I believe it would be very much germane to TSRA’s 2A mission. Would you support this write-up in the newsletter?

Charles L. Cotton wrote: Texas OC proponents needs a Texas-based, Texas-run organization run by someone who knows what they are doing to promote OC. I said this last year and apparently no such organization was established.
Chas.

Charles, I need a little help understanding this. My thought is TSRA is that Texas-based organization. Do you think we need an entirely new organization separate from TSRA to promote OC in Texas? Or is your suggestion to create a working group under TSRA to promote OC? Obviously I am not the “someone who knows what they are doing” are I would probably already know the answer. But I’m willing to help where I can. Does the Employer Parking Lot item have a separate organization or working group with someone in the know that could help us get started with this new organization?

Thanks and Have a Nice Day!

Purplehood wrote:IMHO, it is really all about just how much Kool-Aid that our legislators and the electorate are willing to swallow at one time, especially when it is a new flavor.
I believe that if they swig the whole package at once, it gets spewed out. If they try one or two flavors at a time, they might sip and learn to enjoy.
Since OC is my least favorite flavor, I prefer the others get served up first. Your priorities may or may not be different.

Thanks Purplehood. I think I understand your preference and priorities, and I do not necessarily disagree with your priorities. However, I still believe you are making an invalid assumption that the Open Carry Kool-Aid will not be served to our legislators and the electorate without TSRA involvement. This was not true last session, and it will not be true this session. My belief is the only way this ingredient can be effectively administered is for TSRA to become the cook.

Thanks and Have a Nice Day!

Keith B wrote:I would prefer to send them the email stating:

"I am a TSRA member and I request that TSRA review and evaluate the introduction of an open-carry bill for the 2011 legislative session."

This will show the volume of support for a look at OC. The TSRA legislative team is very savvy and will know the right time to introduce any legislation. If the ingredients are not added to the cake in the right order and at the right time, then you just end up with a big pile of glop.

Hello Keith B.

I have no concern with your new wording. I was just using the wording that was recommended to me by Charles last year.

I agree with your cooking analogy. “Too many cooks ruin the stew” – that is why we need TSRA as the only cook administering this ingredient.

Thanks and Have a Nice Day!

Purplehood wrote:

Conagher wrote:Hello Everyone.

Hopefully everybody has had an opportunity to review and consider the SA-TX post OK passes open carry & TSRA planning for Texas '11 session http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=34325. The discussions provided a lot of insight on the Texas Open Carry topic.

I am personally convinced that it is imperative that TSRA manage the Texas Open Carry effort to ensure coherency with the parking lot and campus carry effort as well as the administration of priority, consistency, and the legislative politics for all Texas 2A legislation. I am deeply concerned that if Open Carry is ignored by TSRA then not only do we run the risk of OC being painted in a negative light, but soured 2A sentiments could also negatively impact both the parking lot and campus carry effort.

As such, I would like to make a plea; if you are a member of TSRA (if not, please consider joining http://www.tsra.com) please send the following message to Alice Tripp, TSRA Legislative Director, at email address AGTripp@aol.com.

"I am a TSRA member and I request that TSRA support open-carry in the 2011 legislative session."

This is all that is required. The TSRA staff will manage it from there.

If you could be so kind as to respond after you have send your message, it would be most appreciated.

Thanks and Have a Nice Day!

As a TSRA member I don't want to add extra ingredients into the Kool-Aid at this point. I would prefer to see Parking Lot and Campus Carry passed first before taking the next step.
It is my opinion that if we go the "all or nothing" route, all we will get is nothing.

Thanks for the reply Purplehood. Certainly you are entitled to you opinion, and I respect that. However, I do find it difficult to understand your logic. I would like to ask a few questions for clarification if you do not mind. Do you believe the Open Carry ingredient is not currently in the legislative arena Kool-Aid? Or do you believe if TSRA chooses not to use this ingredient it will suddenly disappear? From my perspective it is not about “add extra ingredients”, that horse has already left the barn. This issue before us is who will be the Cook whom manages how this ingredient is used.

Thanks and Have a Nice Day!

Hello Everyone.

Hopefully everybody has had an opportunity to review and consider the SA-TX post OK passes open carry & TSRA planning for Texas '11 session http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=34325. The discussions provided a lot of insight on the Texas Open Carry topic.

I am personally convinced that it is imperative that TSRA manage the Texas Open Carry effort to ensure coherency with the parking lot and campus carry effort as well as the administration of priority, consistency, and the legislative politics for all Texas 2A legislation. I am deeply concerned that if Open Carry is ignored by TSRA then not only do we run the risk of OC being painted in a negative light, but soured 2A sentiments could also negatively impact both the parking lot and campus carry effort.

As such, I would like to make a plea; if you are a member of TSRA (if not, please consider joining http://www.tsra.com) please send the following message to Alice Tripp, TSRA Legislative Director, at email address AGTripp@aol.com.

"I am a TSRA member and I request that TSRA support open-carry in the 2011 legislative session."

This is all that is required. The TSRA staff will manage it from there.

If you could be so kind as to respond after you have send your message, it would be most appreciated.

Thanks and Have a Nice Day!