TexasCHLforum.com

Scott Farkus wrote:If you do an open records request for anything remotely having to do with attorneys, they're going to slap it down with attorney-client privilege real fast.

I guess I don't understand the problem. Schools are specifically listed as off-limits under 46.03, are they not? As I understand it, places listed under 46.03 (and 46.035) do not have to post anything - they are off-limits because 46.03 and 46.035 says so (except that certain places - churches, hospitals, amusement parks, govt meetings - were later excepted to require a 30.06 if you want them off-limits).

What are we arguing about? Any compliant or non-compliant 30.06 sign on a school building is either not relevant or redundant - you can't carry there because 46.03 (1) says you can't, unless the school itself says you can. What am I missing?

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an
offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or
goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in
Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;

Keith B wrote:No statute needed. For our purposes as CHL holders, the Texas State Attorney General has issued his opinion that an ISD is a government body. That is all that is needed in the fact that no DA is going to go against that opinion and try to follow through pushing that the ISD was a private entity and they could legally post a 30.06 on their property. End of discussion on my part.

Kyle Brown wrote:

jmra wrote:I could go on and on but I will make this the last one;
http://www.texastribune.org/texas-publi ... -salaries/
From the Texas Tribune
"Today we're launching an update to our government payroll data app to include 14 school districts and five counties — an addition of 140,000 public employees earning $6 billion in payroll."
The database now contains information on more than 480,000 employees from 47 government agencies, including the largest state agencies, counties, cities, universities, school districts and mass-transit operators. The public now can search and explore more than $21 billion in public payroll, a significant portion of government spending that was compiled with information obtained under the Texas Public Information Act.
The app now has the following districts: Northside ISD, North East ISD, El Paso ISD, Aldine ISD, Arlington ISD, Katy ISD, San Antonio ISD, Pasadena ISD, Fort Bend ISD, Lewisville ISD, Garland ISD, Round Rock ISD, Plano ISD, Highland Park ISD. 

Well, I keep waiting for your statutory reference. Do you have a statutory reference which establishes an ISD as a government entity?

Kyle Brown wrote:

jmra wrote:

Kyle Brown wrote:

jmra wrote:

Kyle Brown wrote:I am so sorry that my comments seem to have taken this thread off topic. Please allow me to clarify my position with regard to ‘ownership’ of Texas ISD property. In doing so, I will (hopefully) bring this discussion back to the OP’s original question. Clearly, the statute requires the Board of Trustees (the body corporate) to take title to the ISD’s real and personal property. As title to the real property is passed to the body, so are certain ‘individual’ rights associated with the ownership of real property (privately owned property) in the State Of Texas. For instance, under the authority of those individual real property rights, the body may grant to any CHL holder written permission to carry a concealed handgun onto/into the body’s property. By and through that same ‘individual’ authority, a body could elect to fence off their entire real property (as in a school campus), and post and enforce TPC §30.06.

In addition, for those who are certain that an ISD is a government entity, I would say that in order to bring your position into proper and legal wording supported by statute, one would have to (at the very least) completely rewrite and/or eliminate significant portions of the Texas Education Code, Government Code, Property Code, Tax Code, Election Code, Family Code, Health and Safety Code, and the Civil Practice and Remidies Code. In doing so, you would void the concept of an ‘independent school district’.

I don't have to rewrite anything. The courts already recognize Public School ISDs as a government unit (see my post below).

"...supported by statute..." would be the operative part of my sentence.

I believe your interpretation is way off and has been debunked numerous times in this thread. Regardless of your opinion, the courts consider the Public ISD to be a government unit. The Trustees are elected public servants. Tax payer money is used to purchase the property. The property by definition is public property (government owned).

Needless to say, it is obvious to me that either you have choosen to ignore my statement OR you do not know the difference between statutory law and case law.

Kyle Brown wrote:

jmra wrote:

Kyle Brown wrote:I am so sorry that my comments seem to have taken this thread off topic. Please allow me to clarify my position with regard to ‘ownership’ of Texas ISD property. In doing so, I will (hopefully) bring this discussion back to the OP’s original question. Clearly, the statute requires the Board of Trustees (the body corporate) to take title to the ISD’s real and personal property. As title to the real property is passed to the body, so are certain ‘individual’ rights associated with the ownership of real property (privately owned property) in the State Of Texas. For instance, under the authority of those individual real property rights, the body may grant to any CHL holder written permission to carry a concealed handgun onto/into the body’s property. By and through that same ‘individual’ authority, a body could elect to fence off their entire real property (as in a school campus), and post and enforce TPC §30.06.

In addition, for those who are certain that an ISD is a government entity, I would say that in order to bring your position into proper and legal wording supported by statute, one would have to (at the very least) completely rewrite and/or eliminate significant portions of the Texas Education Code, Government Code, Property Code, Tax Code, Election Code, Family Code, Health and Safety Code, and the Civil Practice and Remidies Code. In doing so, you would void the concept of an ‘independent school district’.

I don't have to rewrite anything. The courts already recognize Public School ISDs as a government unit (see my post below).

"...supported by statute..." would be the operative part of my sentence.

Kyle Brown wrote:I am so sorry that my comments seem to have taken this thread off topic. Please allow me to clarify my position with regard to ‘ownership’ of Texas ISD property. In doing so, I will (hopefully) bring this discussion back to the OP’s original question. Clearly, the statute requires the Board of Trustees (the body corporate) to take title to the ISD’s real and personal property. As title to the real property is passed to the body, so are certain ‘individual’ rights associated with the ownership of real property (privately owned property) in the State Of Texas. For instance, under the authority of those individual real property rights, the body may grant to any CHL holder written permission to carry a concealed handgun onto/into the body’s property. By and through that same ‘individual’ authority, a body could elect to fence off their entire real property (as in a school campus), and post and enforce TPC §30.06.

In addition, for those who are certain that an ISD is a government entity, I would say that in order to bring your position into proper and legal wording supported by statute, one would have to (at the very least) completely rewrite and/or eliminate significant portions of the Texas Education Code, Government Code, Property Code, Tax Code, Election Code, Family Code, Health and Safety Code, and the Civil Practice and Remidies Code. In doing so, you would void the concept of an ‘independent school district’.

Kyle Brown wrote:

jmra wrote:

Kyle Brown wrote:

G.A. Heath wrote:

Kyle Brown wrote:Property owned/leased by Texas ISDs is not government propery. All Texas ISD property (Real and Personal) is privately owned/leased by the Board of Trustees.

Can you provide evidence supporting this claim? As far as I can tell an ISD holds public elections along side government entities, they tax private property, they are exempt from sales tax, can assert eminent domain, have a police force, and act like a government in other ways. To convince me otherwise I would need to see some codified law or case law that says ISDs are not a governmental body.

Education Code, Title 2. Public Education, Subtitle C. Local Organization and Governance, Chapter 11. School Districts, Subchapter D. Powers and Duties of Board Of Trustees Of Independent School District, §11.151. In General, (c) All rights and titles to the school property of the district, whether real or personal, shall be vested in the trustees and their successors in office. The trustees may, in any appropriate manner, dispose of property that is no longer necessary for the operation of the school district.

How does one become a Trustee?

LOL...Well, I don’t want to be accused of hijacking this thread, so I will just refer you to the Texas Education Code with regard to election of trustees. My interpretation of the Texas Education Code is fairly simple: ISDs are not governmental entities. My point in posting the ownership of ISD property was to highlight that an ISD may legally post and enforce a TPC §30.06 sign on its property under the same authority that any individual would use to post the sign on their private property.

Kyle Brown wrote:

G.A. Heath wrote:

Kyle Brown wrote:Property owned/leased by Texas ISDs is not government propery. All Texas ISD property (Real and Personal) is privately owned/leased by the Board of Trustees.

Can you provide evidence supporting this claim? As far as I can tell an ISD holds public elections along side government entities, they tax private property, they are exempt from sales tax, can assert eminent domain, have a police force, and act like a government in other ways. To convince me otherwise I would need to see some codified law or case law that says ISDs are not a governmental body.

Education Code, Title 2. Public Education, Subtitle C. Local Organization and Governance, Chapter 11. School Districts, Subchapter D. Powers and Duties of Board Of Trustees Of Independent School District, §11.151. In General, (c) All rights and titles to the school property of the district, whether real or personal, shall be vested in the trustees and their successors in office. The trustees may, in any appropriate manner, dispose of property that is no longer necessary for the operation of the school district.

sjfcontrol wrote:

Keith B wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote: Plano ISD claims they are not a government agency -- only a "pseudo-government agency", whatever that is.

Where did you hear this? I have not heard them calim anything other than they feel they are valid.

I think it came from here... viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45865&hilit=plano+s ... ct#p558638" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didn't check all the posts in that thread, however the quote was "semi-government", and appears to be (roughly) 3rd hand -- somebody repeating what somebody else heard a third party say.

Perhaps not the best source, but typical of administrative thinking, don't you think?