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jmra

RPBrown wrote:
RX8er wrote:That's a good one but I'm not sure if that would be effective notice. Do they make you sign the back of the ticket? How do they know someone has read the ticket? Is it on the whole ticket or the half that you get back?

I can't tell you if I've ever read a movie theater ticket.

I get the ticket, hold them folded in between my fingers with a Coke and Popcorn in the other hand. Walk up to the ticket kid, takes it, and then the other half it goes in to shirt pocket or opposite pocket that has contraband candy from Neighbor Market.
I am late to the party here. I didn't see this last year so here is my .02

The law doesn't say you have read the effective notice but it does say you have "received effective notice" therefore, IMHO and IANAL, once you receive the ticket, and it is properly written, then you have received notice. Unless you want to be the test case here, and you may beat the rap but could very well take the ride and at what expense would it be to beat it in court?

(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was
forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and
failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the
property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice
to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) “Entry” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) “License holder” has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) “Written communication” means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical
to the following: “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by
holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under
Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun
law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun”; or

Every theater I've been to in the last couple of years has done away with movie "tickets". Now they simply print your receipt and passes on thermal (don't know if that is the right term) paper. There is nothing printed on the back and the only thing on the front is the date and time of the movie you've paid to see. Can't remember the last time I was handed the old style tickets.

jmra

rotor wrote:jmra, you are correct and I meant 1/2 inch, not 6 inches. " and ' are on the same key. Old eyes.

I know, I was just ribbing you a little.

jmra

rotor wrote:"Pursuant to Section 30.06,
Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed
handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this
property with a concealed handgun"

How's this? Technically could be even smaller. I realize this is becomming silly but really, who looks at a ticket stub at the movies.

Actually, on my iPad with my eyes 24" away, I can read that without stretching the screen. Would not have been able to do the same on my iPhone.
Like I said earlier, one day (perhaps) this stuff will be settled in the courts. Until then, "every man has to work out his own salvation".

jmra

rotor wrote:The issue is not "if you wish to read it" but can you read it? If the type is so small ( and most movie tickets are quite small aren't they?) then can you read it? If you use the argument that any written notice is ok then if they gave you a copy of CHL-16 which has the exact verbage would that be notice? Obviously if the give you a readable card with the correct no entry verbage that is readable you can not carry. I still argue that the type can be so small that the whole thing may need a magnifying glass and I don't believe would constitute what a "reasonable" person would consider written notice. The politicians have defined the 30-06 sign quite well. If the letters are 1/2' then no notice. They have not defined the written notice as well and certainly a sharp attorney would be the one to answer this question. You don't need to be able to read super fine print to be medically qualified for a CHL.

If the letters on the sign are 1/2' (six inches) then it would fall into the legal requirements for letter size. Would be a huge sign though.

IMHO, all of this (even a 30.06 sign with 1/2" letters) will not be settled until there is a test case. We all know courts can be very unpredictable.
If it were me:
1. Correct wording on sign with 3/4" letters, I go somewhere else.
2. If for some reason I decided to read the tiny writing on the ticket (may not be able to help myself now) and it has the correct wording, I go somewhere else.

jmra

Hawk99 wrote:My thoughts are that, if they put up a sign or notify by card and the wording is wrong, they intend to keep out unlicensed carry and are ok with licensed carry. A local hospital had a 29ee sign up for the longest. Then I went and they had new signs up in English and Spanish, but did not mention any law at all. These probably went through their legal staff, so i will assume they intend to keep out bad guys and they want us there. So, I will continue to carry as I have always done. These unlawful signs are probably a hedge against the liability of a shooting on site.

Just my uneducated opinion.

Frank, IANAL

sounds to me like putting (what turned out to be incorrect) verbiage on the back of the movie ticket in small print is more of a liability firewall than anything else.

jmra

maddenjc wrote: Additionally, I'm not sure why a business would make it difficult to see the notice if their real intention is to prohibit legal concealed carry, create an unsafe environment, and lose my business. :)

My guess would be that they don't really care if you do carry but want to separate themselves from liability if something happens.

jmra

rotor wrote:jmra, I don't know the answer to your question. Let's say the notice is printed on a card in such a small font that you can't read it. Have you been given notice? This is like the bible printed on a pinhead. Can you read it? Ever watch on tv when they have 20 lines in fine print on the bottom of a commercial? Can you read the warning. The legislature defined how a 30-06 sign must look including the size of the font. I think this is an undefined area but and at my age using trifocal glasses one could easily argue that a very fine print card is not necessarily notice. These of course are lawyer issues. So you go to the movies, it's dark, the entire 30-06 is printed on a ticket stub which you can't read, I would think that you have not been given notice. It is possible now to easily print the entire 30-06 on a dot size point. Get out a microscope and read it. Is that notice, yes if you got out a microscope and used it. Is this the legal argument of what a "reasonable person" might do?

Let's say it is a 3x5 card and the print is easily read. But you toss it without reading it. Have you legally received notice?
I believe you have because the establishment has followed the guidelines as laid out by the law. They have no control over whether or not you read it. I sure wouldn't want my defense in court to be, "Yep, they gave me a card but I'm not responsible because I didn't bother to read it."

This is in response to:

rotor wrote:
I would argue that unless you actually read the ticket you have not been given notice.

ETA: I guess the argument could be made that the intent of the law is that it be a card specifically for the written notice and not tacked on to something that would cause it to so easily be missed.

jmra

rotor wrote:I would argue that unless you actually read the ticket you have not been given notice.

"Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written
language identical to the following:..."

Let's change it up a little. You walk into an establishment and a greeter hands you a card on which is printed the correct wording for 30.06 "written communication". Are you saying that if you toss the card without reading it that you have not received notice?

jmra

RX8er wrote:That's a good one but I'm not sure if that would be effective notice. Do they make you sign the back of the ticket? How do they know someone has read the ticket? Is it on the whole ticket or the half that you get back?

I can't tell you if I've ever read a movie theater ticket.

I get the ticket, hold them folded in between my fingers with a Coke and Popcorn in the other hand. Walk up to the ticket kid, takes it, and then the other half it goes in to shirt pocket or opposite pocket that has contraband candy from Neighbor Market.

I have heard the argument made that the ticket is an agreement and by accepting the ticket and entering the theater you are accepting the terms of the agreement.
Not saying I agree with the argument - just that I have heard the argument made.
I would also point out that 30.06 says "Written communication" means:...a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following:..."
If you walk into an establishment and are handed a card with the correct language but toss it before reading it, have you received notice? According to the code I think you have. I believe the same standard would apply to the ticket. Buyer beware.

jmra

LSL wrote:Houston Alley Theater has a correctly phrased 30.06 notice, in English only, printed on each ticket in tiny print.
Is this sufficient notice?
Does it also need to be printed in Spanish?

Only required in both English and Spanish if it is on a sign.

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written
language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06,
Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed
handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this
property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by
Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with
block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner
clearly visible to the public.

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