Unlicensed carry is legal in any car that you own or is under your control. I interpret that to mean any car you own or are driving such as a rental car, a truck borrowed from a friend, a stock car, etc. Non-CHL carry in another person's vehicle is legal if you're the operator, but not if you're a passenger. You might could get away with carry as a passenger it if you put the gun under the seat, in the glove box, etc. and claimed it was his gun that just happened to be in your reach. I'm not saying that's a good idea, just that it would be hard for the officer to establish that it was in your possession (illegal) and not the driver's (legal).Nintao wrote:Don't you have to own the car for that to apply (or own the bussiness)??? I always thought so, but it would be nice to know for sure. Such as a non CHL holder carrying in a friend's car (or riding passenger). But if that is the case, you own the team and are the driver then you would be carring at your place of business right :p...TrueFlog wrote:It would also mean that any of the NASCAR drivers could legally carry during the race with or without a CHL.
But again on a serious note I would like to know if an non-CHL carry in another person's vehicle as both a passenger and as an operator is legal.
Thanks
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- Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:11 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Nascar carry question?
- Replies: 16
- Views: 4667
Re: Nascar carry question?
- Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:17 am
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Nascar carry question?
- Replies: 16
- Views: 4667
Re: Nascar carry question?
Has this been addressed before on this board? If so, it may be best to move our discussion to an existing thread. Also, I appreciate your response, and I understand you're a respected member 'round these parts. However, as I have neither the time nor money to take chances in the matter, I hope you'll permit me to be a bit skeptical.
You're right that 30.06 only applies to a person carrying under the authority of his CHL- I hadn't noticed that before. That does indeed resolve the contradiction about displaying a license, so we're good there. As for the parking lot issue, how do we know which authority applies in which situation? Your assertion is that MPA supersedes the CHL while in a vehicle, right? On what are you basing that assertion - does the penal code state which one takes precedence, is there existing case law, has some other poor sap already been a test case? I'm inclined to agree (if MPA applies rather than CHL) that 30.06 and 46.035 do not apply to CHL'ers with guns in cars. That means that a visitor at TMS could indeed keep a gun in his camper, even on the infield. It would also mean that any of the NASCAR drivers could legally carry during the race with or without a CHL.
The DPS website provides no info on the date or author of the FAQ. The document as a whole is current as of Sept., 2007, but the FAQ section may or may not have been updated after the passage of MPA. A link to the FAQ can be found in the left margin at http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... sindex.htm.
Now here's the payoff. When I was hired, I had to go through an orientation session during which they told us that guns were not allowed anywhere on company property, even the parking lot. Now that I have my CHL, I look back on that and consider it to be effective verbal notice under 30.06. This means that keeping a gun locked in my car in the parking lot would constitute both a violation of company policy and criminal trespass by a license holder (unless MPA applies). As such, I could not only lose my job but also my right to carry and possibly wind up with a fine and/or jail time. However, if you're correct in stating that car carry falls under MPA and not CHL, then having a gun in my car would violate company policy, but not the law. I could be fired but not prosecuted and would not lose my CHL. Am I interpreting this correctly? Thanks.
You're right that 30.06 only applies to a person carrying under the authority of his CHL- I hadn't noticed that before. That does indeed resolve the contradiction about displaying a license, so we're good there. As for the parking lot issue, how do we know which authority applies in which situation? Your assertion is that MPA supersedes the CHL while in a vehicle, right? On what are you basing that assertion - does the penal code state which one takes precedence, is there existing case law, has some other poor sap already been a test case? I'm inclined to agree (if MPA applies rather than CHL) that 30.06 and 46.035 do not apply to CHL'ers with guns in cars. That means that a visitor at TMS could indeed keep a gun in his camper, even on the infield. It would also mean that any of the NASCAR drivers could legally carry during the race with or without a CHL.
The DPS website provides no info on the date or author of the FAQ. The document as a whole is current as of Sept., 2007, but the FAQ section may or may not have been updated after the passage of MPA. A link to the FAQ can be found in the left margin at http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... sindex.htm.
Now here's the payoff. When I was hired, I had to go through an orientation session during which they told us that guns were not allowed anywhere on company property, even the parking lot. Now that I have my CHL, I look back on that and consider it to be effective verbal notice under 30.06. This means that keeping a gun locked in my car in the parking lot would constitute both a violation of company policy and criminal trespass by a license holder (unless MPA applies). As such, I could not only lose my job but also my right to carry and possibly wind up with a fine and/or jail time. However, if you're correct in stating that car carry falls under MPA and not CHL, then having a gun in my car would violate company policy, but not the law. I could be fired but not prosecuted and would not lose my CHL. Am I interpreting this correctly? Thanks.
- Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:21 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Nascar carry question?
- Replies: 16
- Views: 4667
Re: Nascar carry question?
30.06 and car carry is definitely a gray area. While I would like to agree with you, I'm not sure I do. By your logic, a motorist who get pulled over while carrying does not need to show his CHL since he's carrying under the MPA and not his CHL. However, I think we all agree that the motorist does have to show, so there's a contradiction. Also, from a FAQ on the DPS website http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/ ... df#page=71:srothstein wrote:To answer the original poster, it is clear in the law that you can have the gun in your car. You cannot carry on your person into the stadium.
To answer the other question, 30.06 only applies when you are carrying under the authority of your CHL. In a car, you car not violating any law (MPA made it so), so you are not carrying under your CHL's authority (which would be an exception to the law), so you could have the gun in your car or home in the infield. You could not take it out of the vehicle though.
Well, that is how I read the laws anyway.
That's just a FAQ written by the DPS, so it's not the law, but it does provide insight into how a LEO might respond. In that scenario, an individual without a CHL would have the right to car carry in the lot (under MPA) but a CHL holder would lose that right (under the CHL).Q: If I drive to a shopping mall that does not permit handguns, will I be allowed to park in the parking lot and leave my gun in the car?
A: If the parking lot is not posted with the sign above, handguns may be left in the cars. However, if the sign is posted in or at the entrance to the parking lot, you may not.
Consider this example. If I (with my CHL) drive onto the parking lot at Six Flags lot with a handgun in the glove box, I'm guilty of criminal trespass. If I stop just outside of Six Flags and let my friend (without a CHL) drive onto the lot and park, we're both free and clear. (The handgun is in his possession since he's driving, so I'm good. The 30.06 doesn't apply to him, so he's OK.)