Also an updated from http://www.tsra.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (I hope this isn't a sign TSRA is giving up on this one already ) ...
Austin Gun Shows Under Attack? - UPDATE
TSRA continues to receive reports that the Austin Police Department and the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives attempted to stop all private firearm transactions at an Austin gun show last weekend. These reports refer to a decision reached in a Thursday meeting attended by law enforcement agencies, property owners and managers, and the gun show promoter in question and resulted in a self-imposed regulation that was not based upon a change in city, state, or federal regulations. Any such city ordinance could violate the state's firearms preemption law.
The Texas State Rifle Association, in conjunction with the NRA, will continue to research and investigate this matter--including an examination whether this venue was unfairly targeted as a nuisance by local police or federal enforcement agencies.
Please check your TSRA membership status and check your voter registration. Keep both up to date!
Search found 22 matches
Return to “Austin Gun Show Troubles?”
- Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:15 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
- Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:12 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
Texas Gun Shows is taking donations on their web site to help them with legal fees as they fight for their (and our) 2A rights.
give 'em heck!
http://texasgunshows.net/default.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
give 'em heck!
http://texasgunshows.net/default.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:24 am
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
Well this guy has a different take ("no villians here") on this whole mess. One with which I obviously disagree strongly.
http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austin-G ... er-picture" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Austin gun show update: Interviews reveal bigger picture
January 20, 11:39 AM
Howard Nemerov
Austin Gun Rights Examiner
Rumors have been swirling that Austin, Texas gun shows were threatened with closure unless they accepted a local rule limiting gun sales to licensed dealers only. The Texas Gun Show home page contains this announcement:
Your 2nd Ammendment [sic] rights are under attack!
Your Action is Needed NOW!
VENDOR NOTICE-AUSTIN SHOW ONLY:
At the Direction of the Austin Police Department and the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms,
ONLY LICENSED FFL DEALERS
will be allowed to set up and sell firearms
at the N. Austin Show Location.
But before you grab a pitchfork and head over to Austin police headquarters, interviews of the “interested parties” indicate further consideration may be valuable.
Darwin Boedeker is the Texas Gun Shows (TGS) promoter. In a phone interview, he said that last Thursday, January 14, there was a meeting with Austin PD (APD), the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), the building lessee (HEB) and Andrew Perkel of Austin Market Place, who subleases the building from HEB and supports TGS.
At the meeting, Boedeker said the APD read off a “long list” of nuisance violations to the HEB representative. When Boedeker told everybody that these activities happened while another promoter hosted the gun show at that location–TGS began hosting shows November 2009–nobody else knew this.
Boedeker claimed that ATF and APD “intimidated” HEB into instituting a requirement that only dealers with a Federal Firearms License (FFL) can sell guns. Boedeker said APD invited the HEB representative “knowing he would crack.” That left two choices: cancel last weekend’s show on one day’s notice, or abide by FFL rule. Boedeker said that attendance was “horrible” last weekend, with 50 empty vendor tables and low attendance. He also said that 90% of those complaining about the new rule thought TGS was to blame.
Boedeker is now faced with the option of finding another building “where they support constitutional rights.”
When asked about concealed carry at the show, Boedeker said he doesn’t allow it for safety reasons. Except for law enforcement, he requires every firearm to be unloaded and secured with a safety tie. He cites this policy as the reason his shows have experienced no accidental discharges.
The gun show promoter said he supports the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms, yet bans concealed carry at his shows, citing safety concerns. In fairness, there are exceptions among gun owners when it comes to safe gun handling, and TGS has a right to protect their business from unnecessary liability.
According to their January 19 press release, Austin Police Department said they worked with federal immigration authorities last year, targeting illegal gun trafficking at local gun shows:
Virtually all of these sales to prohibited persons were made by unlicensed dealers or private citizens, both inside the gun show and in the parking lot of the gun show.
[Note: “Prohibited persons” are defined in U.S. Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 44, section 922, subsection (d).]
Because of the “recurring activity” at the North Austin location, the APD Nuisance Abatement Unit got involved.
Due to the history of criminal activity at the gun show, the Nuisance Abatement Unit scheduled a meeting between the property lessee (HEB Grocery), the building sub-lessee (Andrew Perkel a.k.a Austin Market Place), the event promoter (Darwin Boedecker-Texas Gun Shows) and ATF.
Corporal Scott Perry is a Public Information Officer for the APD. When asked if they somehow forced HEB to institute the FFL rule, he said no.
When there’s a nuisance abatement issue, APD gathers all interested parties together and explains the next step in the abatement process. However, the final decision was up to HEB. “We never put any stipulations onto anything,” said Perry, “we only asked that illegal aliens and convicted felons stop buying guns.”
Perry says that when TGS and HEB signed their original contract, HEB was not under direct threat, but was concerned about the nuisance issue. While TGS was not the promoter during last year’s investigation which led to a possible abatement proceeding, Perry said that state nuisance abatement laws work by address.
Perry said HEB came into the meeting planning to void the contract and evict the gun show. The sub-lessee and TGS asked if they could work out a compromise. At this point, HEB asked for recommendations from the APD. HEB then reminded TGS that their original contract contained the FFL rule. After agreeing to comply with the existing contract terms, HEB agreed to give it another try.
Michael Reyes is the Resident Agent in Charge of the Austin office for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). According to Reyes, an ATF agent was present at last Thursday’s meeting. When asked for input by HEB, the agent said that most criminal arrests at past shows were due to illegal gun sales by unlicensed dealers to prohibited persons. Agent Reyes noted one example where an illegal alien bought a gun at the show.
(Reyes wanted to make it clear that it is the buyer’s responsibility to be honest; the seller isn’t held accountable if the buyer lied. He also stressed that it is “perfectly legal” for two private parties to engage in such commerce, and that his agency has no intention of enforcing any sort of illegal ban on private sales.)
The HEB representative asked if anything could be done to stop such illegal activity. Both ATF and APD told him that when prospective buyers purchase through a gun dealer with a Federal Firearms License (FFL), the seller performs a background check before completing the sale. ATF told him that a “large majority of the time” this stops a prohibited purchase.
HEB then decided to add a condition to the rental agreement, which Texas Gun Shows agreed to, limiting gun sales to FFLs. Reyes said ATF and APD did not push for these terms and didn’t threaten to shut down the show if TGS didn’t do this but without agreeing to HEB’s stipulation, TGS would have lost the space.
As APD noted in their press release:
At the conclusion of the meeting the lessee agreed that the recommendations should be followed and instructed their sub-lessee to follow the recommendations. The sub-lessee then informed the event promoter to implement the recommendations at the next show.
This agreement was, in the final analysis, between private parties.
If you want to make a case that law-abiding gun owners are being punished because of illegal gun sales to prohibited persons, then perhaps HEB is the place to start, since they made the final decision.
This author is acquainted with many law enforcement professionals, and while there are exceptions, they generally want to do good work and go home to their families at night.
One thing appears true: Since the FFL rule was implemented by HEB, the wording of the TGS announcement on their web site is overstated.
There are no clear-cut villains and victims here. In the final analysis, you the reader need to decide the best course of action. Facts, not rhetoric, help make educated decisions.
http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austin-G ... er-picture" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Austin gun show update: Interviews reveal bigger picture
January 20, 11:39 AM
Howard Nemerov
Austin Gun Rights Examiner
Rumors have been swirling that Austin, Texas gun shows were threatened with closure unless they accepted a local rule limiting gun sales to licensed dealers only. The Texas Gun Show home page contains this announcement:
Your 2nd Ammendment [sic] rights are under attack!
Your Action is Needed NOW!
VENDOR NOTICE-AUSTIN SHOW ONLY:
At the Direction of the Austin Police Department and the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms,
ONLY LICENSED FFL DEALERS
will be allowed to set up and sell firearms
at the N. Austin Show Location.
But before you grab a pitchfork and head over to Austin police headquarters, interviews of the “interested parties” indicate further consideration may be valuable.
Darwin Boedeker is the Texas Gun Shows (TGS) promoter. In a phone interview, he said that last Thursday, January 14, there was a meeting with Austin PD (APD), the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), the building lessee (HEB) and Andrew Perkel of Austin Market Place, who subleases the building from HEB and supports TGS.
At the meeting, Boedeker said the APD read off a “long list” of nuisance violations to the HEB representative. When Boedeker told everybody that these activities happened while another promoter hosted the gun show at that location–TGS began hosting shows November 2009–nobody else knew this.
Boedeker claimed that ATF and APD “intimidated” HEB into instituting a requirement that only dealers with a Federal Firearms License (FFL) can sell guns. Boedeker said APD invited the HEB representative “knowing he would crack.” That left two choices: cancel last weekend’s show on one day’s notice, or abide by FFL rule. Boedeker said that attendance was “horrible” last weekend, with 50 empty vendor tables and low attendance. He also said that 90% of those complaining about the new rule thought TGS was to blame.
Boedeker is now faced with the option of finding another building “where they support constitutional rights.”
When asked about concealed carry at the show, Boedeker said he doesn’t allow it for safety reasons. Except for law enforcement, he requires every firearm to be unloaded and secured with a safety tie. He cites this policy as the reason his shows have experienced no accidental discharges.
The gun show promoter said he supports the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms, yet bans concealed carry at his shows, citing safety concerns. In fairness, there are exceptions among gun owners when it comes to safe gun handling, and TGS has a right to protect their business from unnecessary liability.
According to their January 19 press release, Austin Police Department said they worked with federal immigration authorities last year, targeting illegal gun trafficking at local gun shows:
Virtually all of these sales to prohibited persons were made by unlicensed dealers or private citizens, both inside the gun show and in the parking lot of the gun show.
[Note: “Prohibited persons” are defined in U.S. Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 44, section 922, subsection (d).]
Because of the “recurring activity” at the North Austin location, the APD Nuisance Abatement Unit got involved.
Due to the history of criminal activity at the gun show, the Nuisance Abatement Unit scheduled a meeting between the property lessee (HEB Grocery), the building sub-lessee (Andrew Perkel a.k.a Austin Market Place), the event promoter (Darwin Boedecker-Texas Gun Shows) and ATF.
Corporal Scott Perry is a Public Information Officer for the APD. When asked if they somehow forced HEB to institute the FFL rule, he said no.
When there’s a nuisance abatement issue, APD gathers all interested parties together and explains the next step in the abatement process. However, the final decision was up to HEB. “We never put any stipulations onto anything,” said Perry, “we only asked that illegal aliens and convicted felons stop buying guns.”
Perry says that when TGS and HEB signed their original contract, HEB was not under direct threat, but was concerned about the nuisance issue. While TGS was not the promoter during last year’s investigation which led to a possible abatement proceeding, Perry said that state nuisance abatement laws work by address.
Perry said HEB came into the meeting planning to void the contract and evict the gun show. The sub-lessee and TGS asked if they could work out a compromise. At this point, HEB asked for recommendations from the APD. HEB then reminded TGS that their original contract contained the FFL rule. After agreeing to comply with the existing contract terms, HEB agreed to give it another try.
Michael Reyes is the Resident Agent in Charge of the Austin office for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). According to Reyes, an ATF agent was present at last Thursday’s meeting. When asked for input by HEB, the agent said that most criminal arrests at past shows were due to illegal gun sales by unlicensed dealers to prohibited persons. Agent Reyes noted one example where an illegal alien bought a gun at the show.
(Reyes wanted to make it clear that it is the buyer’s responsibility to be honest; the seller isn’t held accountable if the buyer lied. He also stressed that it is “perfectly legal” for two private parties to engage in such commerce, and that his agency has no intention of enforcing any sort of illegal ban on private sales.)
The HEB representative asked if anything could be done to stop such illegal activity. Both ATF and APD told him that when prospective buyers purchase through a gun dealer with a Federal Firearms License (FFL), the seller performs a background check before completing the sale. ATF told him that a “large majority of the time” this stops a prohibited purchase.
HEB then decided to add a condition to the rental agreement, which Texas Gun Shows agreed to, limiting gun sales to FFLs. Reyes said ATF and APD did not push for these terms and didn’t threaten to shut down the show if TGS didn’t do this but without agreeing to HEB’s stipulation, TGS would have lost the space.
As APD noted in their press release:
At the conclusion of the meeting the lessee agreed that the recommendations should be followed and instructed their sub-lessee to follow the recommendations. The sub-lessee then informed the event promoter to implement the recommendations at the next show.
This agreement was, in the final analysis, between private parties.
If you want to make a case that law-abiding gun owners are being punished because of illegal gun sales to prohibited persons, then perhaps HEB is the place to start, since they made the final decision.
This author is acquainted with many law enforcement professionals, and while there are exceptions, they generally want to do good work and go home to their families at night.
One thing appears true: Since the FFL rule was implemented by HEB, the wording of the TGS announcement on their web site is overstated.
There are no clear-cut villains and victims here. In the final analysis, you the reader need to decide the best course of action. Facts, not rhetoric, help make educated decisions.
- Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:37 am
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
All gun owners in this area shouldn't be made to suffer because of who a bunch of our neighbors voted for. I live in Cedar Park and thus can't vote in Austin city elections, but I wouldn't vote for any current city council person or the mayor and along with many local Realtors pushed hard to convince Austinites not to vote for them (for other reasons, like government takeover of your homeowner rights in the name of saving the environment and going green).frazzled wrote:I'm torn on that prospect. Clearly we should be out to protect all Texan's rights in this area. On the other hand this is Austin. They elected that council and hired that California police chief. They made their bed now lie in it.
Kicking all Austinites to the curb and saying they deserve it is same as doing so to residents of Chicago or Wshington DC who stood up and fought for our rights.
or try Pflugerville: "Between a Rock and a weird place."frazzled wrote:Williamson County is just up the road. As the ancient Buddha said in response to the "Keep Austin Weird" logo: "Keep Round Rock Normal"
- Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:34 am
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
Below is the Statesman's article. I actually thought they did a decent job of telling both sides of the story. They certainly did convey that the past illegal purchases happened at Mr. Boedeker's show and did not perform their due diligence or obligation to explain that the prior supposed problems were with the Saxet show. But they did quote Mr. Boedeker more than once (more than most of the TV hacks did) and they gave a decent explanation of current law - namely that it is NOT ILLEGAL for two private individuals to buy, sell, trade firearms between each other, as long as they are not prohibited persons (felson, illegals etc). Overall the whole story seemed more tit-for-tat telling both sides than the TV stories which seemed to be "this guy is complaining, but APD has explained "the truth" about it" with no rebuttal from gun show supporters to say APD's version of "the truth" is bull.
I wish they would do a follow up story with some higher ups from APD, TSRA, NRA, BATFE, Bradies etc telling their views of the law or lack there of that is being enforced here. My guess is they won't do so unless/until this becomes lawsuit(s).
http://www.statesman.com/news/local/gun ... 86641.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
By Tony Plohetski
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Published: 9:26 p.m. Tuesday, Jan. 19, 2010
An Austin police effort to curtail the illegal sales of firearms at a weekend gun show sparked an angry response from the event's organizer and raised concerns about whether the department overstepped its authority.
Several police recommendations about the operation of the show were intended to curtail crime there and should not have been viewed as requirements, authorities said Tuesday.
But the show organizer said he thought that law enforcement officials were instructing him to adopt rules that violated state and federal law, including a requirement that only licensed gun dealers be allowed to sell firearms. He said he begrudgingly enforced the recommendations.
The dispute, which began late last week, has since sparked a controversy that is playing out on Web sites and radio talk shows.
Darwin Boedeker, owner of Texas Gun Shows, said he is collecting petitions from people who support gun shows without such requirements and will present them to the Texas attorney general's office.
"All they are doing is keeping the honest man from being able to do what is afforded to him by the Constitution," Boedeker said. "We have a right to buy and sell firearms as citizens of America, as legal, law-abiding citizens. That right is being infringed on us."
According to state and federal law, the private sale of guns is not illegal unless the seller knows the buyer is prohibited from purchasing a weapon, which includes being a convicted felon or an undocumented immigrant.
Gun dealers must have a license.
Austin police said that last year, while assisting federal agents in combating the sale of guns to undocumented immigrants, they recorded a number of illegal transactions. The repeated offenses at the site — a former Sam's Club location on North Lamar Boulevard — prompted police to refer the location to the department's nuisance abatement unit, which works with owners to reduce the number of crimes on their properties.
Police officials said they met last week with representatives from H-E-B, which handles the lease of the property, and with Boedeker, during which they outlined recommendations for reducing crime at the site.
The suggestions included permitting only licensed gun dealers to sell firearms, providing private security to prevent parking lot gun sales and defining a process for people other than licensed dealers who want to sell a gun at the show.
"We merely gave suggestions to reduce the amount of criminal violations that were occurring at this property," Austin police spokesman Cpl. Scott Perry said.
Boedeker said H-E-B representatives told him to follow the recommendations during the two-day show, which featured about two dozen vendors Saturday and Sunday.
"What they did was strong-arm H-E-B into making me do what I did," he said. "The problem is that it is unconstitutional to say I can't sell my private firearm to another individual."
H-E-B spokeswoman Leslie Lockett said Tuesday that police told company officials Monday about a possible illegal gun sale during the weekend and have decided that gun shows should not be hosted at the site until the issue is resolved.
Boedeker said he will look for a new venue to host shows.
He said that in the past couple of days, he has received numerous calls from across the state and nation from people who want information about what happened.
"There are a lot of upset people who want to know the truth," he said.
tplohetski@statesman.com; 445-3605
I wish they would do a follow up story with some higher ups from APD, TSRA, NRA, BATFE, Bradies etc telling their views of the law or lack there of that is being enforced here. My guess is they won't do so unless/until this becomes lawsuit(s).
http://www.statesman.com/news/local/gun ... 86641.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
By Tony Plohetski
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Published: 9:26 p.m. Tuesday, Jan. 19, 2010
An Austin police effort to curtail the illegal sales of firearms at a weekend gun show sparked an angry response from the event's organizer and raised concerns about whether the department overstepped its authority.
Several police recommendations about the operation of the show were intended to curtail crime there and should not have been viewed as requirements, authorities said Tuesday.
But the show organizer said he thought that law enforcement officials were instructing him to adopt rules that violated state and federal law, including a requirement that only licensed gun dealers be allowed to sell firearms. He said he begrudgingly enforced the recommendations.
The dispute, which began late last week, has since sparked a controversy that is playing out on Web sites and radio talk shows.
Darwin Boedeker, owner of Texas Gun Shows, said he is collecting petitions from people who support gun shows without such requirements and will present them to the Texas attorney general's office.
"All they are doing is keeping the honest man from being able to do what is afforded to him by the Constitution," Boedeker said. "We have a right to buy and sell firearms as citizens of America, as legal, law-abiding citizens. That right is being infringed on us."
According to state and federal law, the private sale of guns is not illegal unless the seller knows the buyer is prohibited from purchasing a weapon, which includes being a convicted felon or an undocumented immigrant.
Gun dealers must have a license.
Austin police said that last year, while assisting federal agents in combating the sale of guns to undocumented immigrants, they recorded a number of illegal transactions. The repeated offenses at the site — a former Sam's Club location on North Lamar Boulevard — prompted police to refer the location to the department's nuisance abatement unit, which works with owners to reduce the number of crimes on their properties.
Police officials said they met last week with representatives from H-E-B, which handles the lease of the property, and with Boedeker, during which they outlined recommendations for reducing crime at the site.
The suggestions included permitting only licensed gun dealers to sell firearms, providing private security to prevent parking lot gun sales and defining a process for people other than licensed dealers who want to sell a gun at the show.
"We merely gave suggestions to reduce the amount of criminal violations that were occurring at this property," Austin police spokesman Cpl. Scott Perry said.
Boedeker said H-E-B representatives told him to follow the recommendations during the two-day show, which featured about two dozen vendors Saturday and Sunday.
"What they did was strong-arm H-E-B into making me do what I did," he said. "The problem is that it is unconstitutional to say I can't sell my private firearm to another individual."
H-E-B spokeswoman Leslie Lockett said Tuesday that police told company officials Monday about a possible illegal gun sale during the weekend and have decided that gun shows should not be hosted at the site until the issue is resolved.
Boedeker said he will look for a new venue to host shows.
He said that in the past couple of days, he has received numerous calls from across the state and nation from people who want information about what happened.
"There are a lot of upset people who want to know the truth," he said.
tplohetski@statesman.com; 445-3605
- Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:25 am
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
Keith B wrote:No, it doesn't, but I do the same thing. It is the choice of the person selling to ensure that they are comfortable with the transaction. I have asked for CHL before. I choose who I sell to, and if they don't want to show a drivers license or CHL, then that is their choice also and they can move on to buy from someone else.03Lightningrocks wrote: The law doesn't say you must write down my name and DL. Welcome to the business of infringing on our constitutional rights. The problem we have is explained in actions such as this. You have a justification for violating the RKBA just as the Austin PD.
Edit to add: And it is not the same as filling out a government form that is filed away. Also, I will bet the FFL will want a transfer fee.
And CHOICE (highlighted above) is the operative word here. Freedom means CHOICE. And since liberals seem to love the word CHOICE in other aspects of American life, perhaps they will understand that we would like the CHOICE to conduct a private business transaction as we see fit, not as the gun grabbers and BATFE nannies see fit.
- Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:34 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
Here are stories from ...
KEYE-TV (CBS) http://weareaustin.com/content/news/story/?cid=46651" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
KXAN-TV (NBC) http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/Gun-show-c ... ghts-issue" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
KEYE-TV (CBS) http://weareaustin.com/content/news/story/?cid=46651" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
KXAN-TV (NBC) http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/Gun-show-c ... ghts-issue" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:23 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
So been trying to explain what is happening with this Austin gun show to sheeple and fence sitters who're non-committed on the RKBA issue. I've come up with an analogy that so far has worked to sway their opinion enough for them to say, yeah that is messed up what APD is doing. Here's the analogy I used:
Suppose you run a motel. You just started leasing the property from a landlord a few months ago. This isn't a Holiday Inn, not even a Motel 6. Your hotel takes cash, and everyone knows that people go to this hotel for "intimate" encounters. You don't condone anything illegal and have told the local street walkers to beat it a few times. You try to make your hotel more "family friendly", but there is always an certain type of customer who prefers discretion and not having to pay with a credit card. Some busybodies may not like it, may think it's immoral and unethical, but what goes on in your hotel to the best of your knowledge is perfectly legal and between consenting adults.
Then one day you're invited to a meeting with your landlord and some local police detectives, plus an agent from Immigration and Customs Enforcement and a special FBI taskforce on sex crimes. They tell you that while the hotel was run by previous management, they busted 8 prostitutes in the hotel in the last year. This has become a big enough problem that the Feds are looking into it because some illegal immigrants may have been involved. They tell you that they need to put an end to the illegal activity in your hotel and offer some "suggestions" for how you might help them do this. They suggest you tell all your customers that sex of any kind is not permitted in your hotel rooms, and that law enforcement will be monitoring the rooms to ensure these rules are followed. When you balk at prohibiting your customers from engaging in private and legal activity, which will obviously ruin your business and quickly force you into bankruptcy, the police tell your landlord that their special "Nuisance Task Force" is looking into the possibility of having the property condemned and shut down because of these "multiple crimes" that are causing a nuisance in the neighborhood. Your landlord tells you he can't afford any trouble and this kind of heat from the police and Feds scares him. You're going to have to comply with the recommendations, or he is going to break his lease agreement with you.
Suppose you run a motel. You just started leasing the property from a landlord a few months ago. This isn't a Holiday Inn, not even a Motel 6. Your hotel takes cash, and everyone knows that people go to this hotel for "intimate" encounters. You don't condone anything illegal and have told the local street walkers to beat it a few times. You try to make your hotel more "family friendly", but there is always an certain type of customer who prefers discretion and not having to pay with a credit card. Some busybodies may not like it, may think it's immoral and unethical, but what goes on in your hotel to the best of your knowledge is perfectly legal and between consenting adults.
Then one day you're invited to a meeting with your landlord and some local police detectives, plus an agent from Immigration and Customs Enforcement and a special FBI taskforce on sex crimes. They tell you that while the hotel was run by previous management, they busted 8 prostitutes in the hotel in the last year. This has become a big enough problem that the Feds are looking into it because some illegal immigrants may have been involved. They tell you that they need to put an end to the illegal activity in your hotel and offer some "suggestions" for how you might help them do this. They suggest you tell all your customers that sex of any kind is not permitted in your hotel rooms, and that law enforcement will be monitoring the rooms to ensure these rules are followed. When you balk at prohibiting your customers from engaging in private and legal activity, which will obviously ruin your business and quickly force you into bankruptcy, the police tell your landlord that their special "Nuisance Task Force" is looking into the possibility of having the property condemned and shut down because of these "multiple crimes" that are causing a nuisance in the neighborhood. Your landlord tells you he can't afford any trouble and this kind of heat from the police and Feds scares him. You're going to have to comply with the recommendations, or he is going to break his lease agreement with you.
- Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:22 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
Watched the KVUE-TV report, or at least part of it (stupid DVR ). Followed along with the written piece.
But it was the LEAD STORY.
Apparently APD held a full press conference on this subject today. Circling the wagons?
EDITED TO ADD: here's the video version of the story from kvue.com website ... http://www.kvue.com/video?id=82115242&sec=551077" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But it was the LEAD STORY.
Apparently APD held a full press conference on this subject today. Circling the wagons?
EDITED TO ADD: here's the video version of the story from kvue.com website ... http://www.kvue.com/video?id=82115242&sec=551077" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:53 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
OK, here's a written story on KVUE.com web site. Still awaiting the on-TV story. Love the second sentence ... "police are now setting the record straight" ...
http://www.kvue.com/news/local/Gun-show ... 15242.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gun show owner alleges rights violation
by NOELLE NEWTON / KVUE News
Posted on January 19, 2010 at 5:47 PM
******
A gun show owner says the Austin Police Department violated his constitutional rights. Police are now setting the record straight.
The controversy centers around a yellow flyer passed out at the Texas Gun Show in North Austin last weekend. It reads:
"Selling of Firearms"
At the direction of the Austin Police Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, anyone selling a firearm at this show location will be asked to comply with the following:
1. Any person selling a personal firearm must go through a licensed FFL dealer in the show to transfer the firearm to the new owner.
2. Selling of firearms in the parking lot will not be permitted.
Thank you for your cooperation!
APD Detective T.J. Vineyard told reporters in a news conference Tuesday, the recommendations were the result of a year long police investigation of the gun shows.
"Every time we were there we observed transactions that were either questionable or illegal so our effort was to find ways to address that,” he said.
Vineyard said the goal of the operation was to stop illegal gun trafficking to Mexico.
"Some people would go to vendors to purchase a firearm, and when they were asked to fill out paperwork to do a background check they would bypass that vendor and go to another vendor that wouldn't require a background check,” Vineyard said.
HEB rents out the building where the gun shows are held. Company representatives asked for help to stop the problem. APD and members of the ATF recommended show owner Darwin Boedeker stop allowing private citizens to sell guns without the assistance of a licensed dealer. Thus, forcing every buyer to have a background check.
"Most of the people who are trying to achieve legitimate sales of firearms want that protection, They want to know the gun their buying isn't stolen or the person they sold a gun to isn't a felon or on parole for murder,” Vineyard said.
Boedeker says the request is a violation of our constitutional right to freely sell guns.
"What they want to do is shut the gun shows down. This just doesn't affect me. This affects you, this affects the person down the road, every law abiding citizen,” he said.
Boedeker went along with the recommendations for last weekend's show, but still APD made an arrest. He says HEB has since told him he can no longer hold shows here. Boedeker is convinced police wanted to HEB to make that call.
"At least they knew where to go to arrest them. If there wasn't a gun show, they'd be down in a back alley. Felons are always going to be able to get a gun. That's why they're felons. They don't follow the law,” Boedeker said.
"We didn't mandate anything, we didn't direct anyone to do anything. We made suggestions to them and how to handle that with their tenants or sub-leasers is a civil matter among them," Vineyard said.
Police say during the past year they have arrested eight people on illegal weapons charges. Texas Gun Shows has been using the North Austin Event Center since November. Before that the Saxet Gun Show was there. Boedeker says he knows of only one arrest since he's used the property. He says he's trying to find a new location for his show.
http://www.kvue.com/news/local/Gun-show ... 15242.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gun show owner alleges rights violation
by NOELLE NEWTON / KVUE News
Posted on January 19, 2010 at 5:47 PM
******
A gun show owner says the Austin Police Department violated his constitutional rights. Police are now setting the record straight.
The controversy centers around a yellow flyer passed out at the Texas Gun Show in North Austin last weekend. It reads:
"Selling of Firearms"
At the direction of the Austin Police Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, anyone selling a firearm at this show location will be asked to comply with the following:
1. Any person selling a personal firearm must go through a licensed FFL dealer in the show to transfer the firearm to the new owner.
2. Selling of firearms in the parking lot will not be permitted.
Thank you for your cooperation!
APD Detective T.J. Vineyard told reporters in a news conference Tuesday, the recommendations were the result of a year long police investigation of the gun shows.
"Every time we were there we observed transactions that were either questionable or illegal so our effort was to find ways to address that,” he said.
Vineyard said the goal of the operation was to stop illegal gun trafficking to Mexico.
"Some people would go to vendors to purchase a firearm, and when they were asked to fill out paperwork to do a background check they would bypass that vendor and go to another vendor that wouldn't require a background check,” Vineyard said.
HEB rents out the building where the gun shows are held. Company representatives asked for help to stop the problem. APD and members of the ATF recommended show owner Darwin Boedeker stop allowing private citizens to sell guns without the assistance of a licensed dealer. Thus, forcing every buyer to have a background check.
"Most of the people who are trying to achieve legitimate sales of firearms want that protection, They want to know the gun their buying isn't stolen or the person they sold a gun to isn't a felon or on parole for murder,” Vineyard said.
Boedeker says the request is a violation of our constitutional right to freely sell guns.
"What they want to do is shut the gun shows down. This just doesn't affect me. This affects you, this affects the person down the road, every law abiding citizen,” he said.
Boedeker went along with the recommendations for last weekend's show, but still APD made an arrest. He says HEB has since told him he can no longer hold shows here. Boedeker is convinced police wanted to HEB to make that call.
"At least they knew where to go to arrest them. If there wasn't a gun show, they'd be down in a back alley. Felons are always going to be able to get a gun. That's why they're felons. They don't follow the law,” Boedeker said.
"We didn't mandate anything, we didn't direct anyone to do anything. We made suggestions to them and how to handle that with their tenants or sub-leasers is a civil matter among them," Vineyard said.
Police say during the past year they have arrested eight people on illegal weapons charges. Texas Gun Shows has been using the North Austin Event Center since November. Before that the Saxet Gun Show was there. Boedeker says he knows of only one arrest since he's used the property. He says he's trying to find a new location for his show.
- Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:48 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
IANAL either, but many lease contracts have stipulations that the lessee will not allow/condone/take part in any illegal activity and to do so voids the lease. From all I've read/listened to, APD and ATF are not dumb and they set this up beautifully. When they found out that Texas Gun Show was not the same as the Saxet Gun Show where all these supposed past crimes had taken place (thus necessitating involving the APD's "nuisance abatement force" - whatever that is), they made this false arrest at this past Saturday's show to prove to HEB that "see, they're still making illegal transactions on your property".HankB wrote:IANAL, but one party to a lease or rental agreement cannot abrogate the agreement or change its terms without agreement by the other party. Leases and rental agreements are essentially contracts, and if one side tries to weasel out of the specific performance of their side of the contract, they will be slapped down and probably pay some hefty $$$ in court, especially if they cost the other party some money.austinrealtor wrote: . . . The gun show's promoter is not the bad guy in this. He was given notice of all this on Thursday, knowing full well all his vendors would be setting up the next day. He was basically presented with an ultimatum from HEB, steered by BATFE and APD, to either post these "rules" or you don't have your show.
There must be more to this than what we're hearing, even now.
Someone needs to find this person who was "arrested" and get him to testify about what really happened.
- Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:38 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
Just watched the KVUE-TV (ABC) local news and they touted a "breaking story" on their 6 pm newscast that "soon Austin area residents may have to change the way they sell their guns". I'll be watching their 6 pm newscast and hope they post the story on their web site soon.
Below is all I have found so far on the Statesman.com website (local newspaper's site). What appears to be a word-for-word reprinting of an APD press release, which libels the gun show promoter by saying multiple crimes were committed at HIS SHOW ... OOPS, that was at the SAXET show, not the "Texas Gun Show" which only just started holding shows at this venue. Wonder if they're going to let this stand as the only news that's fit to print, or if they'll make an effort to actually interview the gun show promoter and get his side of the story.
http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/ ... he_blotter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Home > The Blotter > Archives > 2010 > January > 19 > Entry
APD outlines its role in targeting illegal activity at gun shows
Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 04:26 PM
FROM THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT:
Federal Immigration, Customs, and Enforcement (ICE) agents worked cooperatively with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) agents last year in a long-term operation targeting illegal gun trafficking that was stemming from local gun shows. Austin Police Department Firearm Review Unit detectives assisted in the Austin portion of the operation. They observed and participated in multiple arrests of prohibited persons (primarily convicted felons and illegal immigrants) that obtained firearms illegally at a local gun show.
Federal convictions were obtained in a majority of the cases.
Virtually all of these sales to prohibited persons were made by unlicensed dealers or private citizens, both inside the gun show and in the parking lot of the gun show. While the sale of firearms between private citizens is not illegal, the anonymity of these sales in or around the event created an easy avenue for illegal immigrants or convicted felons to acquire firearms. Because of this recurring activity at a single location, the Firearm Review Unit referred the case over to the APD Nuisance Abatement Unit.
Due to the history of criminal activity at the gun show, the Nuisance Abatement Unit scheduled a meeting between the property lessee (HEB Grocery), the building sub-lessee (Andrew Perkel a.k.a Austin Market Place), the event promoter (Darwin Boedecker-Texas Gun Shows) and ATF. During this meeting, APD along with ATF offered to all parties, recommendations to curb the illegal activity that had been documented in the past. At the conclusion of the meeting the lessee agreed that the recommendations should be followed and instructed their sub-lessee to follow the recommendations. The sub-lessee then informed the event promoter to implement the recommendations at the next show. The recommendations that the lessee directed the sub-lessee and the event promoter to follow were:
Only licensed gun dealers are allowed to sell firearms at the gun shows
The promoter will provide on-site security to prevent parking lot gun sales
The promoter will define a process for people other than licensed dealers that show up with a gun that they want to sell
There was an understanding that the January 16-17, 2010 gun show would follow these recommendations.
Get the latest crime reports in your neighborhood with the Statesman's Crime Tracker.
Below is all I have found so far on the Statesman.com website (local newspaper's site). What appears to be a word-for-word reprinting of an APD press release, which libels the gun show promoter by saying multiple crimes were committed at HIS SHOW ... OOPS, that was at the SAXET show, not the "Texas Gun Show" which only just started holding shows at this venue. Wonder if they're going to let this stand as the only news that's fit to print, or if they'll make an effort to actually interview the gun show promoter and get his side of the story.
http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/ ... he_blotter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Home > The Blotter > Archives > 2010 > January > 19 > Entry
APD outlines its role in targeting illegal activity at gun shows
Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 04:26 PM
FROM THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT:
Federal Immigration, Customs, and Enforcement (ICE) agents worked cooperatively with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) agents last year in a long-term operation targeting illegal gun trafficking that was stemming from local gun shows. Austin Police Department Firearm Review Unit detectives assisted in the Austin portion of the operation. They observed and participated in multiple arrests of prohibited persons (primarily convicted felons and illegal immigrants) that obtained firearms illegally at a local gun show.
Federal convictions were obtained in a majority of the cases.
Virtually all of these sales to prohibited persons were made by unlicensed dealers or private citizens, both inside the gun show and in the parking lot of the gun show. While the sale of firearms between private citizens is not illegal, the anonymity of these sales in or around the event created an easy avenue for illegal immigrants or convicted felons to acquire firearms. Because of this recurring activity at a single location, the Firearm Review Unit referred the case over to the APD Nuisance Abatement Unit.
Due to the history of criminal activity at the gun show, the Nuisance Abatement Unit scheduled a meeting between the property lessee (HEB Grocery), the building sub-lessee (Andrew Perkel a.k.a Austin Market Place), the event promoter (Darwin Boedecker-Texas Gun Shows) and ATF. During this meeting, APD along with ATF offered to all parties, recommendations to curb the illegal activity that had been documented in the past. At the conclusion of the meeting the lessee agreed that the recommendations should be followed and instructed their sub-lessee to follow the recommendations. The sub-lessee then informed the event promoter to implement the recommendations at the next show. The recommendations that the lessee directed the sub-lessee and the event promoter to follow were:
Only licensed gun dealers are allowed to sell firearms at the gun shows
The promoter will provide on-site security to prevent parking lot gun sales
The promoter will define a process for people other than licensed dealers that show up with a gun that they want to sell
There was an understanding that the January 16-17, 2010 gun show would follow these recommendations.
Get the latest crime reports in your neighborhood with the Statesman's Crime Tracker.
- Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:50 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
Well they were not allowing individuals to walk around and buy/sell guns either. As to your specfic question, I'm 99% sure it is legal for a individual to rent a table and sell guns at a gun show. I'm sure if you do it all the time you could find yourself talking to BATFE. But most shows don't let you walk in with a bag or even a dolly/pushcart, so if you have 5 or 10 rifles/shotguns you need to unload, setting up at a table is likely you're only way to do so.wgoforth wrote:Showing my ignorance here.... I thought you had to be an FFL to sell guns as a business in the gun shows anyway? I know there are individuals who walk around selling a gun or two, but I thought the booths selling guns had to be FFL's and had to run the background check? Don't get me wrong, I don't like gvt intereference period, but I just assumed this was already a BATF rule.
- Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:36 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
Sounds like HEB may pull the plug entirely on any future gun shows at the old Crocket Center. That's what Alex Jones and Darwin Boedeker, the sTexas Gun Show's promoter, were discussing on Jones' show today. Also, apparently KVUE local TV news has interviewed Boedeker and is now trying to interview APD about this for a news story. Who knows when it will run.
Anyway, here are YouTube links to today's interview etc.
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Anyway, here are YouTube links to today's interview etc.
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- Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:18 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
- Replies: 123
- Views: 23168
Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
OK, Alex Jones is a nutjob (IMHO), but it is worth your time to listen to these segments from his show that GeoJAP has so generously posted. I received a reply email from someone with Texas Gun Shows also pointing me to the Alex Jones Show segments via this link http://www.gcnlive.com/directory.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;GeoJAP wrote: Interview on Alex Jones radio show (say what you want about Alex, but he's a die-hard 2nd Amendment supporter):
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The gun show's promoter is not the bad guy in this. He was given notice of all this on Thursday, knowing full well all his vendors would be setting up the next day. He was basically presented with an ultimatum from HEB, steered by BATFE and APD, to either post these "rules" or you don't have your show.
Anyway, listen to at least some of this (while trying to filter out Mr. Jones' insane ranting and raving) to get a better idea of what happened. Interestingly, the names of all the APD, BATFE, HEB, and North Austin Events Center players were mentioned in the show.
I'm waiting for cooler heads than Alex Jones to start planning what to do to resist this oppression. Godspeed to TSRA's attorneys etc.
I'm also seriously considering attending the next show just as a show of support.