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ShootDontTalk wrote:As for me, I figure I should select the ammo that is rated by experts to be the most effective fight stopper for humans. My shotgun runs Federal LE 132 #1 Buckshot for two reasons. First, it is rated the most effective fight stopper by the experts and second, because a large number of Law Enforcement agencies use it.

I have to wonder, given the relative popularity and availability of different buck sizes, if there's real evidence for that, or if the experts are working too much from theory and not enough from actual coroners' reports. Even finding #1 in many stores is a problem, but everybody's got 00, so I can't imagine most medical examiners have ever even seen a body hit with #1.

The difference is the buckshot will over penetrate if you miss, or worst case, sometimes over penetrate a BG. The slug will over penetrate even with a center of mass hit - almost every time.

The slug is up last, so anybody who gets that was still present in my place after 4 loads of #4 fired from no more than 25 feet away. (Longest unobstructed line in the house.) At that point, some extra risk is justified IMO.

ShootDontTalk wrote:Slugs are powerful, no question. They are also much better penetrators than buckshot. That is, they shoot through a great many layers of things - like walls.

Guess I should have BoT test walls like mine; 14" of limestone mortared with some pretty darn hard concrete and with about an inch of plaster on the inside. Pretty sure it would take artillery to get through that, and not necessarily on the first shot.

LeonCarr wrote:With all due respect to TAMs experience, being struck in the head with a piece of plastic moving 1600 fps can cause serious bodily injury or death. Yes it may be a one in a million type of thing, but there is still a risk of it happening and that has to be factored in.

Pretty sure that being taken hostage by an armed assailant has a higher probability of lethality.

Pawpaw wrote:With all due respect, I will not take a hostage rescue shot with any weapon unless no reasonable alternative exists.

I think that's pretty much a prerequisite of the shot. OTOH, once the BG has the hostage at their mercy, can any reasonable alternative exist? Essentially, you're trusting a person who has already proven themselves to be severely untrustworthy with the life of another person.

VMI77 wrote:I couldn't remember the names and was too lazy to look them up. I find names to be harder and harder to remember as I get older, but don't have a problem remembering numbers.

Still remember the serial number of the musket you were issued, don't you?

Well, I don't really expect to have to do the "hostage shot" with my 12ga, but I guess if I ever do, that slug at the end of the mag would be my choice for it anyway.

Patterns can be pretty reliable, but a single flyer of 000 buck at close range is enough to cause a really big problem when you're shooting past an innocent's head.