TexasCHLforum.com

gringop wrote:

tbrown wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Things in Oldgringo's world may be a little simpler and less defined than in the world of others? For instance: knowing the law of concealed carry is not synonymous with knowing the rules of concealed carry.

The rules of concealed carry can be imparted on a reasonably intelligent and mature adult in four hours. Learning the law of concealed carry probably takes years longer. Not to pick at nits, I'm just sayin'...

If someone already knows the rules, making them take a class is a waste of their time and money. Just sayin'

If someone takes a class and still doesn't know the rules, the class was a waste of their time and money. Just sayin'
(No judgement on whether the fault lies with the student or the teacher. It could be either or both.)

Let's lower the 10 hour minimum and make the class optional. Some people want or need a prep class. Some people don't. We're all adults so the government should stop playing mommy and let us choose what's right for us. If we pass we pass. If we fail we fail. Isn't that what freedom is all about? Opportunity. The opportunity to succeed or fail like adults.

Assuming the test and fees are reasonable restrictions, unlike literacy tests and poll taxes for voting.

I'll toss in my 2 cents at this point. Re, the bolded quote above, would folks feel the same way if the test was not just an easy 50 multiple choice and T/F questions that stay the same for years on end? Say 200 questions, some multiple choice, some T/F, some fill in the blank, some essay, all pulled from a 5000 question database. How about a few scenarios with multiple branches and questions at each branch. And let's make it adaptive so when you miss an answer on deadly force, it keeps feeding you more deadly force questions. And if you fail, you must wait 15 days to retake the test. And it takes a score of 85 or better to pass. And have the shooting qual add in some 25 yard shots. And require an 85% to pass.

I've taken tests like the above for professional certifications. But when I made mistakes in that area, it just meant that someone got disconnected from the Internet for 30 minutes. Making mistakes in firearms safety or legal use of force means that people go to jail, or get injured or get dead.

For the record, I don't think that such a difficult test is the way to go or very fair. But I can see the enemies of concealed carry pushing things in that direction, if the supporters of CHL push for no training class being required.

The fact is that no progress in the Texas Legislature happens without compromise. A parking lot bill this year but no campus carry. A reduction to a 4 hour class next time but no open carry.

IMHO, within the hallowed halls of the Texas Capitol, it doesn't matter what the 2nd amendment says, it doesn't matter what each citizen's inalienable rights are, what matters are the deals that can be made between politicians with conflicting interests. I'm just thankful that Charles and others are working for us in that sausage factory.

Gringop

tbrown wrote:I have heard of and met a lot of new CHLers who

• don't know where is off limits
• don't understand the 30.06 law
• don't know churches are no longer off limits unless there's 30.06 notice
• don't know the Chapter 9 rules for deadly force
• don't even know the Chapter 9 rules for force
• don't know there's a difference between MPA and the castle doctrine
• are confused about "printing"
• are confused about CHL and alcohol or prescription drugs
• aren't familiar with their carry gun
• know little or nothing about nonviolent dispute resolution

Should I go on? It looks like 10 hours is not enough for a lot of instructors to teach the required classroom topics in a useful way.