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Jim Beaux wrote:Truth is simple. There are only 2 possible answers here: 1. The store allows guns, or 2. the store does not allow guns.

During the interaction the OP was never advised in any form or by inference that guns were allowed. Regardless if one of the reasons for this decision are invalid, it still doesnt convey permission. The "no guns" was clearly communicated.

The only no gun information I received from the clerk was that it was necessary for all parties to obey the blue sign which she misinterpreted. I don't need a shopkeeper to give me verbal permission to enter with a firearm.

I'm not worried about whether or not I received permission or verbal prohibition. I'm worried that the blue TABC sign could become for all intents and purposes a combination 30.06/30.07 sign in the minds of shopkeepers and LE.

mojo84 wrote:All the more reason I recommend you get a second opinion from one of the experts I mentioned previously. The law is not what we think it is or want it to be. It will only cost you if you are wrong.

I'm very confident about my knowledge of blue versus red TABC signs. And I'm very confident of this forum's members' knowledge of blue versus red TABC signs. I'm growing less and less confident of the community's knowledge of blue versus red TABC signage.

TVGuy wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

Embalmo wrote:

TVGuy wrote:

Embalmo wrote:

mojo84 wrote:Tvguy, it's my understanding verbal notice is valid until otherwise notified.

So many customers and employees come an go in these chain stores that it would be next to impossible to prove that some employee gave notice. Especially when the notice was given vaguely in the course of a conversation.

This.

This is proof of the companies lack of knowledge of both alcohol and gun laws; and the invalidity of the clerks statement. No one is ever going to likely notice a concealed carry unless it's drawn. At that point, verbal notification is the least of my worries.

What concerns me most is the ignorance of the laws from shopkeepers, LE, and the public at large that can erode our rights.

Can you cite the law of which you are insinuating we are ignorant?

Before jumping to insinuating we are ignorant, you may want to double check your position with someone that is more knowledgableb such as Charles, Keith, Carlson, Steve Rothstein or others.

Mojo, I don't think he's talking about us.

Even an HEB corporate customer rep was quoted in another thread as telling the OP that they did not not allow firearms because of their blue TABC sign. That kind of ignorance frightens me. All it takes is a shopkeeper that thinks I'm commiting a felony by walking past a blue sign, and an ignorant LEO (A 20 plus year veteran trooper had to find out from me recently that church carry was legal) to drive me away.

TVGuy wrote:

Embalmo wrote:

mojo84 wrote:Tvguy, it's my understanding verbal notice is valid until otherwise notified.

So many customers and employees come an go in these chain stores that it would be next to impossible to prove that some employee gave notice. Especially when the notice was given vaguely in the course of a conversation.

This.

This is proof of the companies lack of knowledge of both alcohol and gun laws; and the invalidity of the clerks statement. No one is ever going to likely notice a concealed carry unless it's drawn. At that point, verbal notification is the least of my worries.

What concerns me most is the ignorance of the laws from shopkeepers, LE, and the public at large that can erode our rights.

mojo84 wrote:Tvguy, it's my understanding verbal notice is valid until otherwise notified.

So many customers and employees come an go in these chain stores that it would be next to impossible to prove that some employee gave notice. Especially when the notice was given vaguely in the course of a conversation.

TVGuy wrote:

mgood wrote:

mojo84 wrote:You said she said " no guns allowed here". That's all she needs to say to give you notice.

The rest of the conversation is irrelevant. IMO, you have received verbal notice.

If you're ever caught carrying there and for whatever reason the cops are called, and it goes to court, that woman gets on the stand and says "I told him we don't allow guns here." The other clerk is a witness to that and agrees. You're toast.

You're not going to be going to court for a class c misdemeanor either way it goes.

mojo84 wrote:

Embalmo wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

Embalmo wrote:

TVGuy wrote:

Embalmo wrote:I just asked a convenience store clerk while checking out with a Snickers Bar on my lunch break if she'd seen any open carryers yet. I'm at work and concealing. Anyway, a burly woman came out of the back telling us that no guns were allowed here and there was a big sign outside. I insisted she show me the sign and she proudly pointed my nose and o their blue TABC sign.

Embalmo

Where?

183 close to Cameron in the Wendy's parking lot.

Hope you don't plan to carry there in the future. Even if her reasoning is fallacious, you've been provided notice. Sad part is, you prompted it.

Sometimes it's better to just go about one's business without bringing things like guns up. There are plenty of other things to smalltalk about.

I don't consider an ignorant misquote of a law verbal notice. She based her general verbal notice on the condition of the sign, not her own authority. She never told me I couldn't carry, nor did she say that she didn't allow it.

You said she said " no guns allowed here". That's all she needs to say to give you notice.

I believer her exact words were, "No guns are allowed here because of the big sign outside (it really wasn't big). I took this as, "Since we sell alcohol, no one is allowed to carry." She flunked her TABC required alcohol sellers class, so she is giving false information about a law she made up.

mojo84 wrote:

Embalmo wrote:

TVGuy wrote:

Embalmo wrote:I just asked a convenience store clerk while checking out with a Snickers Bar on my lunch break if she'd seen any open carryers yet. I'm at work and concealing. Anyway, a burly woman came out of the back telling us that no guns were allowed here and there was a big sign outside. I insisted she show me the sign and she proudly pointed my nose and o their blue TABC sign.

Embalmo

Where?

183 close to Cameron in the Wendy's parking lot.

Hope you don't plan to carry there in the future. Even if her reasoning is fallacious, you've been provided notice. Sad part is, you prompted it.

Sometimes it's better to just go about one's business without bringing things like guns up. There are plenty of other things to smalltalk about.

I don't consider an ignorant misquote of a law verbal notice. She based her general verbal notice on the condition of the sign, not her own authority. She never told me I couldn't carry, nor did she say that she didn't allow it.

TVGuy wrote:

Embalmo wrote:I just asked a convenience store clerk while checking out with a Snickers Bar on my lunch break if she'd seen any open carryers yet. I'm at work and concealing. Anyway, a burly woman came out of the back telling us that no guns were allowed here and there was a big sign outside. I insisted she show me the sign and she proudly pointed my nose and o their blue TABC sign.

Embalmo

Where?

183 close to Cameron in the Wendy's parking lot.

I just asked a convenience store clerk while checking out with a Snickers Bar on my lunch break if she'd seen any open carryers yet. I'm at work and concealing. Anyway, a burly woman came out of the back telling us that no guns were allowed here and there was a big sign outside. I insisted she show me the sign and she proudly pointed my nose and o their blue TABC sign.

Embalmo