TexasCHLforum.com

Soccerdad1995 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:12 pm

LTUME1978 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:30 pm

mojo84 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:28 am The video makes it pretty obvious what happened.

Yes, it sure does. Older gentleman gets forcefully shoved to the pavement by the boyfriend of the lady that parked illegally in a handicapped spot. Older gentleman did nothing wrong. If fact, we need more people to step up and speak out when the "privileged folks" break the law or those "privileged folks" will continue their behavior and escalate from there.

I am amazed at the people that are defending the behavior of the boyfriend. Go back and watch the video again. Look at the guy that came out of the store after the boyfriend and how fast and how far he went once he saw the gun coming out. If the boyfriend was truly afraid, he should have been back tracking just as fast. The fact that he did not move much while starring down the wrong end of a gun would lead a reasonable person think that he was not afraid for his safety and may very well intend to attack again.

Ecclesiastes 8:11 When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people’s hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong.

I have to disagree with you on one point. The older gentleman definitely did something wrong, IMHO. I believe that a non-LEO should not initiate an altercation when they witness a traffic infraction that does not directly impact them. This is especially true when armed.

I also have not seen a single post in this 8 page thread saying that the boyfriend did nothing wrong. If there are such posts (that I missed) then I disagree with those posters. The boyfriend escalated the confrontation that had been initiated by the shooter, in a big way, by turning it physical. It may be understandable for him to instinctively come to the defense of his girlfriend and children, but a verbal response would have been better, IMHO. Something like communicating to the shooter that he needs to move away from the vehicle immediately (actual wording would violate forum policies in a big way).

But here's the key point, to me. As a LTC holder, when I choose to be armed, I believe that I have an increased responsibility to be a good citizen. This includes avoiding confrontations over traffic or parking infractions. Just this morning on my drive to work, I witnessed approximately 50 drivers who were speeding. I didn't initiate a confrontation with any of them, nor with the folks who failed to signal when making lane changes or who were following too closely. An untold number of tough use of force calls were avoided just because I decided not to play batman and initiate a confrontation when I saw someone breaking a law. The shooter in this case did the exact opposite.

I think you are taking this completely out of context. Asking someone to move out of a handicapped parking spot is not playing "police". I see it as being thoughtful of someone who may need that spot. Try calling 911 over this (as was suggested in other posts) and see what happens (the caller may get a visit by the Po-Po for abusing 911). The police won't respond on something like this. I just can't believe that there are so many on this site that would walk by this and not ask the person to move.

The shooter did not initiate being assaulted by the boyfriend. You folks are entitled to your opinion. We certainly are on a different page.

mojo84 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:28 am The video makes it pretty obvious what happened.

Yes, it sure does. Older gentleman gets forcefully shoved to the pavement by the boyfriend of the lady that parked illegally in a handicapped spot. Older gentleman did nothing wrong. If fact, we need more people to step up and speak out when the "privileged folks" break the law or those "privileged folks" will continue their behavior and escalate from there.

I am amazed at the people that are defending the behavior of the boyfriend. Go back and watch the video again. Look at the guy that came out of the store after the boyfriend and how fast and how far he went once he saw the gun coming out. If the boyfriend was truly afraid, he should have been back tracking just as fast. The fact that he did not move much while starring down the wrong end of a gun would lead a reasonable person think that he was not afraid for his safety and may very well intend to attack again.

Ecclesiastes 8:11 When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people’s hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong.

Maxwell wrote: ↑Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:44 am

LTUME1978 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:35 pm

jonmo1 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:03 pm No, he was not standing his ground. It was more like revenge for getting pushed down. The guy was backing away after the gun came out. If he had made an aggressive move forward then it would be justified.
I’d say 2nd or 3rd degree murder, certainly not first degree.

I beg to differ on standing his ground. I watched the video and that is eye opening. Having a discussion on illegally parking in a handicapped space does not justify the force that was applied. That was no gentle shove. I am 62 and if someone I did not know walked up and shoved me to the ground that aggressively, my pistol would be out. If that gentleman was not moving quickly to get well away from me, I would probably have shot as well (remember the 21 foot rule?) as he could close very quickly from such a short distance and inflict even more harm/injury/possibly death. When one is a senior citizen, an extremely hard jolt like that and/or the resulting impact to the pavement can cause serious injury and possibly be life threatening if ones head hits the pavement hard. You may be bullet proof when you are young but wait till you get older. You will find things change.

If it was a discussion, I'd agree. I'm almost 60 and much more fragile than when younger also. A shove like that could do serious damage. However witnesses has already stated this was not "a discussion," the shooter was YELLING at her in front of two small children and has a history of doing so using very racial and inflammatory language. And yes, husband/BF was backing away from the confrontation after the shove when he was shot. I think, IMO, the sheriff knows this and most likely believes it was a provoked situation also. But by the letter of their state law it may have been legal.

LTUME, I doubt you or I would have been yelling at people for parking in a handicap space, much less so doing it repeatedly.

If this happened in Texas I would hope there'd be a grand jury inquiry to determine charges.

I can only speculate as to why he may have been yelling. The lady had her window rolled up? The A/C was on? She may have turned the music up so she would not have to hear him tell her that what she was doing was wrong and he knew that so he raised his voice? I wasn't there, just a guess. I have no idea what he was saying either (your comment about racial and inflammatory language).

If I needed the handicap space for myself or a family member, I would have probably asked the lady to move the car. Based on what I see here in my area, there are a lot of "special" folks that park inappropriately in a handicapped spot (no sticker or license plate). I see one lady that has a handicapped sticker and parks in that spot at the rec. center then goes in and does at least an hour of intense exercise most days. She is a nice lady but having a handicap sticker and working out like that don't add up. I can understand how people who need that handicapped spot get upset with the folks that abuse that. My big pet peeve here in Houston is all those "special" drivers that don't want to wait in line at exits off of the freeway and drive up to the front of the line to cut as they are so much better than all the rest of us that do wait in line. I wish I had a Star Trek "tractor beam" (or whatever they called it) to lock onto those cars and set them upside down on the side of the road.

Anyway, back to this issue. Several folks said they would do the same thing to defend their wife. I am not married but if I were and my wife was driving, I would ask her not to park in the handicapped spot (traffic law violation). She could drop me off at the front of the store and I would find the car once I was finished in the store. If she did park in the handicapped spot, a more appropriate response when exiting the store would have been to walk up to the guy and apologize for her parking there and that we would move the car as quickly as possible. The guy that was fussing at her did not appear to break the law, she did. The boyfriend had no business reacting the way he did and greatly escalated things by aggressively shoving the guy to the ground rather than apologizing for what his wife did.

As far as shooting, I can't read anyone's mind so I don't know what the boyfriend would have done. He may have taken a step back after he saw the gun but who knows what he would have done if he had not been shot? I don't and no one else does either. If I think my life is at risk, I will protect myself. The boyfriend escalated things to that level with his action to assault the guy that shot him. I said it before and will say it again, he was much closer than 21 feet from the shooter. Very few can react quick enough in response to someone that close attacking.

The idea of pulling the gun and not shooting is faulty logic in my mind. My pistol would stay holstered until needed. My hand may be on the grip but it is not coming out until needed. Friends of mine had a painful experience. Not exactly the same but will give you an idea of what can happen if you pull a pistol. She got in a road rage incident with another lady while driving home from work (other lady was very aggressive). A few traffic signals down the road, they parted ways. The other lady went home, called the police and reported that my friend pointed a gun at her (her husband is HPD and she does have her CHL/was carrying but did not point the gun at anyone). She was arrested by Galveston County and $50,000.00 in legal fees later, it was over. While she never had reason to pull a pistol and never did (I believe her). I decided that my pistol isn't coming out just to try to deescalate the situation. Good intentions can result in very expensive legal fees or worse. Others can do whatever they think is best.

jonmo1 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:03 pm No, he was not standing his ground. It was more like revenge for getting pushed down. The guy was backing away after the gun came out. If he had made an aggressive move forward then it would be justified.
I’d say 2nd or 3rd degree murder, certainly not first degree.

I beg to differ on standing his ground. I watched the video and that is eye opening. Having a discussion on illegally parking in a handicapped space does not justify the force that was applied. That was no gentle shove. I am 62 and if someone I did not know walked up and shoved me to the ground that aggressively, my pistol would be out. If that gentleman was not moving quickly to get well away from me, I would probably have shot as well (remember the 21 foot rule?) as he could close very quickly from such a short distance and inflict even more harm/injury/possibly death. When one is a senior citizen, an extremely hard jolt like that and/or the resulting impact to the pavement can cause serious injury and possibly be life threatening if ones head hits the pavement hard. You may be bullet proof when you are young but wait till you get older. You will find things change.