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CHLSteve wrote:... my question is at what point does it become warranted? I was expecting him to start shoving or pushing at which point I think I would have doused him rather than get into the a knock down drag out fist fight on the tee box.

The answer to that question is found in PC PC §9.31. I'm not going to quote it because y'all know where to find it. Basically, if someone hits you, grabs you, shoves you, etc., you are justified in using force to stop the assault, "when and to the degree the actor [you] reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force."

That clause always leads to endless debates about the possibility of prosecution, but I can't figure out what you can do besides use force or retreat. The same section of the code explicitly says that you do not have a duty to retreat (as of Sept. 1, 2007).

"Use force" does not necessarily mean that you punch the guy's lights out or pepper spray him. Holding a person at arm's length (if you have longer arms) is a use of force.

... I don't know why people cannot wait an additional 20-30 seconds for the group in front of them to clear before hitting.

I don't know either, but impatience and rudeness have been epidemic for decades. I date it to the late 1960s-early '70s.

The ironic thing is that these goofballs waste more time yelling at you than they lost by following the rules.

- Jim

CHLSteve wrote:A minute at most huh? I always thought a blast to the eyes would get you 5-10.

You are right, for a spray square on both eyes and the nose.

As usual, I get in trouble for posting without giving the issue enough thought. I have been using the rule of thumb of 30 seconds to a minute for sprays that don't hit both eyes, or don't last long enough. With a live assailant, he may duck, turn his head, or hit your hand if he's close enough. Or the wind might divert the spray.

I don't remember where I got that figure.

IMHO, you just can't depend on the stuff to work in every case.

- Jim

I should have said this earlier, though the OP didn't ask: Pepper spray disables an assailant for a minute at most, and possibly not at all. If the guy was angry before, he's going to be really angry afterward, and he knows what you've got now.

So where are you going to be when he recovers?

When the police use pepper spray, their goal is disabling the person long enough to put handcuffs on him. Non-LEO self-defense is quite different.

- Jim

Pepper spray is force, not deadly force. If you have a justification for using force according to chapter 9 of the Texas penal code, you can use pepper spray.

Mental, verbal, or ocular judo, such as you used, is always a better alternative if it works.

As usual, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

- Jim