TexasCHLforum.com

It probably would not be a good idea to put a CHL endorsement on a driver license, because they do not run concurrently. A person could let his CHL lapse or get it suspended, and it would still be on the driver license.

- Jim

Oldgringo wrote:I don't think this thread applies to me. Where we live, everybody knows who everbody is - or was.

That's the problem with modern society.

For most of human history, outside of a few big cities, people rarely met strangers. You knew who everyone was, how much you could trust them, what tricks they had up their sleeve, etc.

Very few communities in the U.S. are like that today.

I have always wondered whether there is an upper limit on the number of people that one person can know by name. Certainly a few thousand. Maybe ten thousand. No one could know a million people by name.

Therefore we need state-issued credentials.

This issue comes up in many contexts other than CHL: proving citizenship, flying, voting.

I don't think I should have to identify myself to get on an airplane, but I do.

somedudefromhouston wrote:Again my issue with that is why is anyone on my property demanding that I ID myself? Didn't they have a pretty good idea about who lives where when they entered private property?

Plenty of reasons have been given. I'll give you a few more:

• They got the wrong address (312 Maple Street versus 212 Maple Street).
• They were given bad information by dispatch.
• Someone in your house called 911 for whatever reason.
• Your creepy neighbor called in an anonymous false tip to CrimeStoppers.

- Jim

WildBill wrote:What the DPS officer told you was wrong about [legally] having to declare your CHL if you are not armed.

That is correct. The officer was wrong.

However, that is what the officer thought was the law. Officers are going to enforce the law as they understand it.

As a side note, if your CHL is linked to your DL, why should it be required to show both?

The simple answer is that is the way the law is written.

Another answer is that police do not always have those systems available. For example, they were down in Galveston after Hurricane Ike for a while.

I personally think that whether you have a CHL or are carrying is a non-issue until you put yourself in a situation where you are placed up against the wall and searched. However, this is a hot-button thing with certain police organizations.

- Jim

Does everyone understand that the really good reason involves a ride to the station, bail, your name in the newspaper, and further legal fees?

If not, please backtrack and read Thomas Hobbes's Leviathan.

- Jim

I agree.

When the founders got over the shocks of artificial lighting, motor vehicles, etc., and started to digest what was going on, they would think that the U.K. had somehow reconquered the U.S.

They would weep into their hands.

- Jim

We do, but even within the founding generation, there was tension between liberty and security, and the need for a balance of power versus a strong executive.

- Jim

That is my understanding.

Hobbes was superseded by the classical liberal point of view that won the American Revolution and framed the Constitution.

However, there is always a tendency to surrender personal sovereignty in exchange for peace and prosperity, or a pale imitation thereof.

- Jim

The Annoyed Man wrote:I think there is a societal presumption that a man's home is his castle. We even have that codified to a certain extent into law here in Texas in the form of the Castle doctrine. If we, as individual citizens, are not sovereign within the confines of our own homes, then are we sovereign at all?

Leviathan. We are far down this road.

- Jim

If a law enforcement agent of any kind, local police, DPS, or FBI, comes to your door without a warrant, you have the right to tell them that you want to meet at your lawyer's office.

It is probably a good idea to do so.

The problem is when you call them, or they come for an exigent emergency, and they ask for ID, and if you don't cooperate they invoke the Terry rule.

I know it may take case law to bear that out, ... And I would spend money to defend that position.

Twenty grand, easily. Thanks for offering.

Buenas noches.

- Jim

couzin wrote:LEO ... are not (IMHO) setting out to just hassle people by demanding identification.

IMHO, sometimes they are.

However, I figured out a long time ago that one man can't win a fight against the system. You have to change the system.

Consider the example of Thurgood Marshall.

- Jim

What do you tell the cop? "I'll get my ID, it's in the other room"?

IMHO, that is the correct answer.

It's not a good idea to cause unnecessary alarm by mentioning weapons. Remember this?

- Jim

Liberty wrote:This is becoming a common practice. I believe that it is done to help keep accuracy in the reports. Prevent misspellings etc. I don't like it much either. Makes it seem as though the victim is the one being investigated.

From the LE point of view, I could be some kook reporting a burglary at a place that is not my property. There is no limit to the weird things that people do.

When this happened to me, it was not like a traffic stop where they call the information back to the dispatcher to check for warrants. The officer just wrote it down.

- Jim

I have BTDT. In this city, if you report a crime such as burglary, the police ask you to produce ID.

No problem came from such an incident, other than already having stuff stolen.

- Jim