TexasCHLforum.com

Carry-a-Kimber wrote:I think what OldCannon was trying to say is that he will eventually have to pay someone to store all of the paperwork assosiated with being an FFL, therefore; he charges people a fee to handle the transfer of firearms.

Right. If there was no _business_ cost associated with a transfer, I wouldn't charge for it. I'm responsible for the A&D logs and the 4473's for a VERY long time, and that's definitely a business cost.

I guess I'm not understanding the real question, but I have a feeling my initial reply created more confusion than answers I would _never_ avoid a question though. Why should I?

alpmc wrote: OK, you must have misunderstood the question, sorry....my fault. Since you first stated that you DO charge storage fees for the 4473 forms, and then you stated that you use a locked file cabinet at your business for the storage of the 4473 forms.

Ah, all FFLs charge a fee for transfers(often between $25-$50). It includes operational costs of doing business, PART of which might necessarily involve storage fees. So, no, I'm not saying I charge a fee _because_ I have to pay somebody else to store. I have monthly costs for insurance, security system, phones, internet, etc. Based on the number of transfers I do a month right now, my wife says I should be charging $140 per transfer so I'll at least break even

alpmc wrote: As of today's date, do you, as a Texas dealer, have to file a Multiple Transaction form to the ATF and local Law Enforcement when more than two long guns, despite their type, are purchased at the same time?

Not quite "despite their type" -- has to be higher than .22 cal (i.e., .223, etc), semi-auto, detachable magazine. That was in the link I provided.

So if you're buying 5 bolt action rifles, there's no additional reporting.

alpmc wrote: If your answer is yes...........please provide a link to the actual law.

It was in the relevant ATF links and guidelines I provided earlier. If you're looking for some kind of congressional law, you won't find it. It's the ATF. What they say is law. Therein lies the problem. They can't get congress to do things, so they do it themselves. Just like the EPA, etc. I suppose you could say I could tell the ATF to get stuffed, but there would go my FFL and the massive investment I've made. So, for me and about 8700 other FFLs, if you buy more than one AR-15, the ATF is gonna hear about it.

Heartland Patriot wrote:Okay, let me get some clarification on this one thing. Is it true or not true that, if you have your CHL, the NICS check does NOT have to be accomplished? I understand that the form still gets filled out, but then, as pointed out above, it just goes on file to fulfill the requirements. Is my question accurate?

Correct; The ATF has agreed that a current TX CHL meets the requirements for a background check. Your CHL number and expiration date go on the 4473 form and you're done! (Even an active police officer has to have a background check unless they also have a CHL! )

alpmc wrote:OldCannon - Thanks for your corrections to my post. I'm not a dealer but I have inquired about this very subject from 3 of our local guys...................seems they are not telling me the whole story. They all said they called into NICS.............none mentioned a computer. Glad to know this is an option.

Let me get this straight.......you said:

OldCannon wrote:2) 4473 is retained by FFL business owner for 20 years (this is why I charge a fee, in fact, otherwise I'd do it for free, but one of these days, storing and securing all those 4473 is gonna cost me real money).

To whom do you charge a fee for storing 4473 forms?

If I need to archive files, I could use a resource like Iron Mountain or some such place for offsite storage. For now, a locked file cabinet here works just fine

OldCannon wrote:3) Multiple Transaction Forms apply to long guns as well in states bordering Mexico due to new regulations.

So your saying that all multiple transactions must be reported by Texas gun dealers.......even long guns? Please tell us more on this matter with source references to the regulations.

Thanks!

Here's a recent article about it as it churns through the courts: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/20 ... er-states/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And, of course, ATF's darling justification: http://atf.gov/firearms/industry/051711 ... rifles.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BTW: If you're thinking about being an FFL, you should read this page at least weekly: http://atf.gov/firearms/industry/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

alpmc wrote:When you purchase a gun in Texas, a background check is performed by calling FBI NICS (not a computer), a reference number is issued by FBI NICS to be written on the transaction form and your are approved or denied. As was stated, the dealer is required to keep the records until they go out of business at which time they are supposed to send the forms to ATF. The ATF can come and copy any records they desire during inspections. An active CHL voids the need to call FBI NICS, but your CHL info is written on the transaction record.

The Multiple Transaction Form. The only time your info is transferred to the ATF is when you purchase more than one HANDGUN at a time! Then a copy of the transaction record goes to the ATF, and a copy also goes to the local Sheriff's Dept. If you want buy more than one handgun at a time, buy them five days apart from one another and you can avoid the multiple handgun transaction form.

Handguns only....this does not apply to longuns.

I need to correct a few misstatements in your post:
1) NICS can be done by computer. I never call in, in fact. Much easier, actually.
2) 4473 is retained by FFL business owner for 20 years (this is why I charge a fee, in fact, otherwise I'd do it for free, but one of these days, storing and securing all those 4473 is gonna cost me real money). If I quit the biz, the forms go to the ATF for "proper disposal".
3) Multiple Transaction Forms apply to long guns as well in states bordering Mexico due to new regulations. Apparently, thousands of guns are being smuggled into Mexico (courtesy of the ATF), so now the ATF wants to track those transactions on an MTF. Gotta appease the ATF, dontyaknow


As for being paranoid about black helicopters -- private sales are still private. I reckon if the day ever comes that the ATF wants to collect, they're going to find almost all guns people bought were "sold" off to somebody else (actually, if it comes to that, I reckon a lot of people are going to apply the "you can take it out of my cold dead hands" rule)