TexasCHLforum.com

Holy grave digger!!

sjfcontrol wrote:

para driver wrote:

hirundo82 wrote:It's dead for this session. Hopefully there will be a better thought-out and coordinated effort in the future.

I think this was a little too much too fast, to change this all at once... perhaps the first step is just to decriminalize accidental or temporary display by a CHL?

And someone asked how do you identify the Police vs. someone that just open carrys? I guess that would be the badge the police also have on their belt?

It already IS decriminalized.
Not sure how you would define "temporary".

Hopefully he meant unintentional. But I wonder too, how do you decriminalize something that's not a crime?

JKTex wrote:The issue of open vs concealed preference always gets dragged into the issue of legislation and it has nothing to do with it. The effort to pas legislation to decriminalize open carry is not about which is more comfortable or which give 1 person a tactical advantage or another some other reason of personal preference.

It's easy for us to loose sight of the bigger picture.

Maybe it would be best to start a new thread for the discussion of preference so this one about the legislation can play itself out (if there's even anything left to play out :) )

Besides that, aside from how to physically carry or the gear, how in the world do we compare civilans and LEO's carrying?

Again, there is no right or wrong answer, there is no single perfect solution for everyone. It's a matter of preference and prudence. It may be my preference, but I have to consider if it's appropriate at the time and in that place.

The thread has officially been run into a ditch.

The issue of open vs concealed preference always gets dragged into the issue of legislation and it has nothing to do with it. The effort to pas legislation to decriminalize open carry is not about which is more comfortable or which give 1 person a tactical advantage or another some other reason of personal preference.

It's easy for us to loose sight of the bigger picture.

Maybe it would be best to start a new thread for the discussion of preference so this one about the legislation can play itself out (if there's even anything left to play out :) )

As an aside, I got a letter from Tan Parker yesterday (odd by nice getting an actual letter in an envelope) that expressed his complete and full support for 2A legislation including this bill. I wasn't sure where he stood so I'm happy. May have to offer to treat him to lunch at the Square One Cafe' whenever he gets back to his local office.

Google Scholar?? Holy smokes, I have officially just stepped up my level of "extertness" on everything, beyond the world as we know it.

There's part of the problem as I see it. A subset of the "we" who support gun right issues make open carry out to be something that will instantly have people walking around with big scary guns strapped to our sides instilling panic and fear. Sure, we see some of the open carry demonstrators that do just that because they're making a point rather than progress, but amongst CHL holders that carry, it seems most would never consider open carrying and a very few would under the right circumstances. I'd love to open carry 100% of the time but know that's not feasible, at least most metro areas. The few that might, I don't think will be carrying in a manner that will be all that noticeable or in places where it may create fear. I'd likely still carry IWB, shirt tucked but gun not covered, leaving a small part of the gun exposed, tight against me and behind my arm 90% of the time, as an example.

I think it's an issue that is a bigger deal hyped on paper than it would be in reality, and that makes "us" our own worst enemy. Of course the guys demonstrating with tactical gear with an attitude doens't help.

hirundo82 wrote:

Jasonw560 wrote:Charles, any chance once of your bills being a concealed carry in primary and secondary schools for teachers and staff? Perhaps the parents, as well?

That would be accomplished by this:

Charles Cotton wrote:I have at least three bills I want to file next session, but none of them are high-profile bills, although one will certainly garner opposition. (That bill would make CHL's exempt from TPC §46.03 as well as TPC §46.02.)

Bravo to the bold! It just happened for Elected Officials etc. and while their reason of being "targets" may have merit, the same and other reasons makes it sensible for CHL holders as well. How much more danger is there when every time I go park at the front door of my daughter middle school to run in for 5 minutes, I leave my pistol in my truck rather than just leaving it concealed and secured on my hip? I don't like having to handle it more than I need to nor do I like creating opportunities for someone to catch a glimpse of me upholstering in the truck and causing a lock-down with SWAT, helicopters and national media! ;) Pro sporting events? Bar's etc.? If we can't be trusted to have and use good sound judgement, we shouldn't carry, and that goes for everyone, even LEO's.

steveincowtown wrote:The current bill stinks, without a change to the 30.06 part (IMHO). Besides staying "neutral" what has the TSRA/NRA done to address the concerns of CHL holders?

They have their agenda committed to gun rights and that's their priority. I certainly can't speak for either, but when someone else introduces a bill that turns out to be a train wreck waiting to happen, if they can do anything, it's to protect us, whatever that may mean. If it looks like it does make it on the calendar, in the least the changes need to be pulled out so concealed carry is not jeopardized. It's almost unfair to expect them to do anything when they're scrambling to get their primary agenda worked, which from the looks of it, they may get it done this session (both campus carry and parking lot).

I asked another member in another post, it's easy to expect someone else to do something, but what have YOU done?

safety1 wrote:Did not have time to read the entire post, sorry! What are the chances of open carry passing???
I thought this would go nowhere without the proper support...its appears to have none of
the support it needs to pass? Thanks!

You asked a doozy. You really need to read a lot of the thread to see the issues with it. But sit tight. Whether it even has enough time may be known soon.

Ravendove wrote:As far as the programming is concerned, I think Texas is further along than Tennessee. When I talked to people in TN about their stance on gun rights, it was a pretty mixed bag. I'd say more than half of those I spoke to were against. Whereas here, I've been hard pressed to find anyone against gun rights. There are a few people I know who moved over from China within the last year or two who don't like guns but that's about it.

Go have the same conversation in Frisco, or Flower Mound or Southlake (I could go on) where the population grown has been the highest in the nation, and where the population is 60%-75% transplants from all over the country. Go ask the same questions at Chili's or Chucky Cheese or Cotten Patch when the same population is having a soccer team get together, or to Lowes, Home Depot or the Calloways on a busy Saturday. Or during the day before the kids need to be picked up from school, go to the grocery store's and ask the parents doing some quick shopping. You'll find some very different opinions.

I live in FM and while I completely support open carry itself, I currently carry concealed when going out with other families yet would never even think about carrying openly with them because I know some will be very uncomfortable or worse. I honestly can't think of a time or place that I would regularly openly carry around here just due to the very high potential of causing alarm with some nut which regardless of my rights, I don't want to deal with. I would likely carry differently more often, just not fully open. However there are places where I go and would have no problem carrying anything I wanted because it's just different (and kinda nice actually :) )

It's complex especially when you go from one part of the state to another, and just going from one place to another here in the DFW area. Texas is jam packed with transplants from other states and countries who think they need to change the state to be more like what they're used to, and what a lot of people are used to is scary. Texas is complex.

mreavis wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

mreavis wrote:I also would not be surprised if 30.06 signs increased in areas and I would not like that either. However, at this time, we do not have a given right to carry into every business. That is why they made the 30.06 sign. If you want to fight against that sign or restriction that is of arguable merit. Open carry itself though is not truly about that. Choosing to not have open carry (a separate but important right) simply because it will further educate people on gun laws (30.06 signs) is a step in the over-all wrong direction. Although you or I may not agree with 30.06 signs, if we want to do this the real way, we will fight the sign and restrictions itself. Not try to preserve the lack of knowledge about the laws. Who knows, maybe open carry would even show people guns are not so scary in public in the hands of licensed holders.

I acknowledge the gorilla warfare tactic of hiding the right to post 30.06 signs from business owners. And I agree this will effect that. I just don't think that should be our biggest focus.

TPC §30.06 is not unfair to CHLs or an imposition on us; it literally saved us from being shut out of a huge percentage of businesses. If TPC §30.06 were repealed, CHLs could be barred simply by posting a generic "no guns" sign or decal. The last thing we want to to do away with §30.06. The next to the last thing we want is to have §30.06 amended to apply to both open and concealed carry.

Chas.

I agree. The uniform sign is a needed if restrictions on carrying are to be represented for state laws. I simply meant we cannot be afraid to gain our right of open carry because of 30.06 sign back lash. 30.06 signs already exist and are law. I don't think its beneficial to the big picture to not support open carry because as a more informed gun law activist you understand the common public will learn more about how to legally ban your carry. Don't get me wrong I don't want more 30.06 signs. However, if we bank on lack of education to keep 30.06 away and ignore our open carry we are losing in my opinion. We cannot avoid expanding these rights simply because we are afraid of educating our 'enemies' on our weaknesses(their rights?).

mreavis, that makes no sense, unless you're trying to say that it's more important to push for open carry, regardless of how far an ill-though bill rushed in last minute could set us back. Unless you don't understand the problem with the bill as it's written now. It gives a business that does not want civilians carrying a handgun openly (and if you don't think just about the places you go will, you have to consider the places you don't go or other parts of the state) no other choice but to ban all legal licensed carry as there will be no legal difference in carrying concealed or open, just legally carry. In a perfect world that would be great, but it's way more complex than that. It's irresponsible, careless and extremely selfish of those that just want to "fight" for open carry with no regard to those that want to protect concealed carry. Open carry has to be approached responsibly and cautiously. The bill as it stands now, does neither.

I'm trying to get past and out of the all the rhetoric and mess and focus on the bill since it's currently active. I may be missing something and if I am, please correct me. To me, right now, forget the LSCDL. The bill is Rep. Lavender's and he and all other Representatives serves their constituency which is the State of Texas, us.

If it looks like there is any chance at all that it may progress, we need to make sure they know how "we" feel and ask for the changes to be made, or withdraw it. There's no sense in letting it cause any damage, as slight as it may be if it runs out of time. After all, I'm sure most of us have watched our local news and seen it already being discussed. People are hearing about it and when/if it gains a higher profile, it do not need to cause any damage.

sherlock7 wrote:HB-2756 is a good bill and I hope it passes. Don't count it out just yet! There is still time. I plan to be on the phone tomorrow and will also sent emails. I will at least do my part! Hope everyone else does so too!

I have a hard time understanding how someone can think it's a good bill. Unless you're not a CHL holder and not thinking about the ramifications if it did pass as is. But if you're not a CHL holder, it doesn't effect you at all, so I'm scratching; it doesn't make sense.

A question, in light of all the issues that have been aired. Back to the bill which is already out of the gate, what is the responsible thing to do with it? Contact Rep. Lavender and ask for the bill to be amended such that it does not put the CHL holder at risk, or ask that he pull it all together in lieu of working with the appropriate folks to go at it better prepared during the next, or another session?

Since the bill is on the move, so far, it just seems that at this point, it needs to be the target of productive energy to make sure it moves forward responsibly, or has a suicide plan.

Judge wrote:

JKTex wrote:

Judge wrote:People are going to say, do and try anything they can to prohibit, restrict, or otherwise prevent OC.


Just SAY'n.

There's a huge leap between "prohibit, restrict or otherwise prevent OC" and not want to see an OC runaway train that while it may reach it's destination as the OC supports want, has a huge chance of doing massive collateral damage.

A lot of people put in a lot of effort over a long time to get the CHL and start to get the ship turning in the right direction to have a renegade come along and drop a bomb that throws us back 20 years. I fully support OC, but not at the risk that HB2756 as written brings.

Well when is the jump forward coming? Another 20 years...Oh wait...it's almost been that long

20 years for what? How many bills do you think should be worked each year, and expected to pass? Do you have a magic pixy stick that will align the stars such that timing is right and OC moves to the top of the list, above the likes of campus carry, employer parking lot etc.?

Have you talked with "your" State Representative and/or Senator about them representing what you want and getting a bill drafted? Or are you just pointing fingers at the elusive "them" who owe it to you? What have YOU done to advance OC responsibly? I hope you have a sense of humor.......keyboard commandoing doesn't count.