TexasCHLforum.com

ScottDLS wrote:[
My argument is that 46.035 trumps itself. It states:

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER, (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

If a non-CHL can carry to their car, then a CHL doing the same thing is NOT "carrying under the authority" of their CHL. So they don't have the 46.035 duty to conceal.

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I agree with you on that. That is why I replied to the statement from Keith B. when he said, "...then you will not have been properly concealing as they identified it as a gun, cause it looked like a holster, and you will have a VERY hard time explaining to the Judge that is was concealed properly since it looks like a gun holster."

I just substituted a gun case with GLOCK on it for the holster. It looks like a gun box, just like the holster looks like a gun holster. To me if I was carrying a gun in that holster directly enroute to my car from a gun shop, Bass Pro, Cabella's, etc. I should be covered under 46.02, and the judge shouldn't need further explanation, and I shouldn't have been arrested in the first place because, as you said I'm not carrying under the authority of my CHL.. So 46.035 should not apply.

LarryH wrote:How about putting the gun box in a store bag and carry it out that way?

A Bass Pro Shop (or Academy or Gander Mountain or . . .) bag could contain darn near anything.

That's the point. A non CHL doesn't have to put the holster or the Glock box in a bag as he/she is exempted under 46.02. The CHL apparently does (or might have to) according to Keith B. (for the holster) to keep from being nabbed for Failure to Conceal under 46.035. If so, why should a CHL have to jump through hoops a non CHL doesn't if the weapon is not his/her carry weapon, but one he/she just bought, had repaired, or fired at Bass Pro range, etc.?

I'm NOT opposed to having to follow strict laws as a CHL, nor am looking for special treatment. I just want to be sure that I have the same rights as everyone else. I do not want to lose these rights just because I have a CHL. If 46.02 trumps 46.035, that's fine, but I don't think we have a legal opinion on that (yet).

Now all of this is hypothetical, and my recent posts have been strictly related to Keith B.'s answer to the picture of the holster in this thread.

texjames wrote:This thread is really getting strange.Are some of you guys saying that if some "Non CHL" guy buys a new handgun at Academy and is carrying it in the
box it comes in out to the parking lot he could get in trouble for having a concealed handgun.I just don't see any law enforcement being that anal...
at least in the great State of Texas.And some of you see a problem with the CHL holder having his in the box?

No, you got it backwards. I'm saying the non-CHL is legal because PC46.02 says it's OK if you are going directly to your car. But, PC46.035 says a CHL may never intentionally expose his weapon in public. I was using the analogy of the GLOCK box being no different than the holster pictured by Marksiwel, as it just as well "implies" there may be a gun inside. According to Keith B. he could be arrested for failure to conceal with that holster. So. So a non CHL is OK walking to his car, but a CHL may not be unless the exemption under 46.02 about directly enroute to your car TRUMPS the failure to conceal in 46.035 which only applies to CHLs.

ScottDLS wrote:

G26ster wrote:
There is no exception to 46.02 that applies to a non-CHL buyer leaving the store with a purchased handgun. So concealed or not, it is against the law to carry a handgun on or about your person unless you have a CHL or fit one of the other 46.15 exceptions (sporting activity, hunting, traveling, etc.).

If I am leaving the store as a non CHL and going directly to my car in the parking lot, according to PC46.02(a)(2) I am legal.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

So my point was, the non CHL is legal under PC46.02(a)(2), but a CHL is in violation of PC46.035(a) unless PC46.02 trumps PC46.035.

Keith B wrote:I am going to say no. Reason being is the statute states 'not reasonably discernible by the average person'. If you have that hanging on your belt, it may NOT have a gun in it, but if John Q. Public sees it and determines you are carrying a gun and calls, then you will not have been properly concealing as they identified it as a gun, cause it looked like a holster, and you will have a VERY hard time explaining to the Judge that is was concealed properly since it looks like a gun holster.

Keith B; You are certainly one of the most knowledgeable on the forum, so I respect greatly what you have to say. Using your reasoning above, one could argue all kinds of reasons a non-CHL could not be charged, where a CHL could be charged with Failure to Conceal. Under PC46.02(a)(2) John Q. Public can walk out of a gun store, Bass Pro, Cabela's, etc. to their car with a big black case that says "GLOCK" on it, and be protected, even if police are called by some frantic anti type, and there is a gun in the case. However PC46.035(a) prohibits a CHL from failure to conceal under any circumstances. The big black case that says "GLOCK" is on or about his person, and it's not concealed if you use the holster analogy above. Does PC46.02 trump PC46.035? I don't know. Or, am I reading the statutes wrong?

OK, OK, we are getting into a contest I didn't intend. I just asked a simple question. I know that there is little chance of being arrested for taking a gun into a gun shop in a case or otherwise. There is, as has been pointed out to me, case law that says that's OK. But in the terms of the statute:

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

Technically it's illegal. I'm not concerned, and I'm not over thinking. I just wanted to know if there was another statute I was not aware of that would allow me to un-conceal in a gun shop. That's all, no more. I think we should let this thread just fade away

Teamless wrote:what gun with what laser?
maybe someone on here can advise what holster they have used or can suggest manufacturers to go to to fit precisely?

Kahr PM9. I have several holsters designed specifically for the PM9 and laser, but had I had the opportunity to try them first I wouldn't have bought them. Hence my question about trying them on for fit and comfort IN the store before spending the cash. BTW, both PM9 pocket holsters I bought were highly praised by other PM9 owner's. Guess they fit them fine, but not me. Of course I could always buy jeans made by Omar the Tentmaker

Well, I wasn't addressing big chain stores that happen to sell guns. I was addressing gun stores. Unfortunately, the gun I am searching for a holster is an oddball, and no gun stores have them in the configuration of mine (laser mounted). The law (46.035 ) tells me it's illegal to un-conceal, so I was hoping that some other statute I had missed would allow me to do otherwise at a gun shop with the owner's or employee's permission. Guess not. Thanks for all the answers.

texjames wrote:I don't carry mine in "concealed" i put it in a pistol case, unloaded and walk up to the counter.Tell them i have and unloaded pistol and want to try holsters.

Thanks, but what's the "legal" difference for a CHL if I carry it in a pocket holster, or in a pistol case. Either way they are both concealed and on my person. I realize that I need to speak to the gun store employee, but it would seem to me that in a gun store one should be able to un-conceal for whatever reason. Isn't the gun store private property, and usually aren't the employees are open carrying? What I'm looking for is the law that prohibits me from un-concealing in a gun store, on private property, with the owner's or his representative's permission. It seems 46.02(1) would prohibit me from even walking in and opening a gun case, which would be rediculous in gun store.

Embalmo wrote:Depends on the store. It it's a small operation, simply asked, "Are you comfortable with me taking my carry weapon out to test this holster?" I did something similar when buying my UC9; I asked him if I could conceal it in an IWB holster that I brought with me and he let me walk around the store with it. He won't be a cop doing a sting operation, but don't do what I just said in front of a LEO.

So basically it's illegal to un-conceal and try on a holster with my gun, even with the store owner's permission?

OK, I walk into a gun store to check out some IWB holsters. How do I legally un-conceal to try some on?