TexasCHLforum.com

rbwhatever1 wrote:Well put Steve Rothstein.

talltex wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

mojo wrote:Hyperbole aside, what I do think people are saying it is normal and reasonable for a citizen that is being stopped for a mere traffic violation to feel uncomfortable if the cop gets excited and anxious and then prepares their weapon to be drawn just because someone hands them a chl when ID is requested.

It is unreasonable to expect someone not to react or have thoughts based upon the demeanor and actions of another in a similar situation. If a citizen being stopped it is acting nervous and evasive, the officer will pick up on that and respond accordingly. If the cop is acting nervous and excited, think Barney Fife, I think it is perfectly reasonable for the citizen to view that as an unpleasant encounter. Hence the title of this thread.

I just want to get the point across that an officer is not being "aggressive," they are not trying to "scare and intimidate" you, nor are they committing any crime or doing wrong by touching their gun.

Once more...You state as fact, your opinion. You cannot know someone else's thoughts or motives. In this case, in my opinion, it was due to lack of experience, but given the sequence of events, I think she overreacted. I also believe that it isn't always unintentional...there are some officers that do act overtly aggressive and do so with the intention of intimidating others and abuse their authority. I saw it happen a number of times on routine stops, with two officers I worked with back in the mid 70's.

Vol Texan wrote:

C-dub wrote:

handog wrote:

C-dub wrote:This thread has taken an interesting turn. Unsnapping or releasing one or two retention devices is not an aggressive act, but does it rise to the level of the threat of deadly force? I see officers rest their hand on the grip of their gun often. Most of the time it is just a place to rest their hand. However, in an instant such as the OP described, that's not the case. There seems to be a fine line here and I'm not sure when or why it is okay for a LEO to cross over it, while I am not.

If the OP reached for his gun and released its retention do you think the LEO would have considered it an act of aggression ?

Getting on a little later tonight.

In order for the OP or anyone's action of releasing retention and reaching for their gun to have the same effect as the officer's, wouldn't it have to be intentionally unconcealed? Otherwise, if retention was released and your hand was on your gun and it remained concealed the officer would never know. The officer doesn't have that ability since their sidearm is out there for all to see.[/

If the CHL holder makes ANY move toward their gun (such as releasing retention) during a traffic stop, then it should (rightfully) be considered by a LEO to be an aggressive maneuver.

If it's aggressive when the CHL holder does it, then it's also aggressive when the LEO does it.

This is particularly true in the situation described in the OP in which the officer went from a "friendly and non confrontational manner" to a situation where the officer "reacted badly ... placed her left hand on her pistol, removed the retention, stepped back behind me, and demanded in a shrill voice "ARE YOU ARMED!" ... (snip) ... She asked "WHERE IS IT!"

This isn't LEO-bashing, rather it's normalizing the behavior so that it is interpreted the same way for both individuals. Justifying the action as different (by any means) is an unfair (and likely biased) assessment.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:well hopefully people don't gun down cops with a provocation either.

She would've done it perfect if the OP would've never been able to notice her grip her handgun.

C-dub wrote:This thread has taken an interesting turn. Unsnapping or releasing one or two retention devices is not an aggressive act, but does it rise to the level of the threat of deadly force? I see officers rest their hand on the grip of their gun often. Most of the time it is just a place to rest their hand. However, in an instant such as the OP described, that's not the case. There seems to be a fine line here and I'm not sure when or why it is okay for a LEO to cross over it, while I am not.