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jmra wrote: Nice first post. As an educator I can tell you some crazy stories about parent behavior. When parents believe they are "defending" their children, at times civility and common sense imitate Elvis and leave the building.

As a parent, I can tell you some crazy stories about what some school administrators do to the children under their care that can lead some parents to the edge of civility. I won't post one specific personal story on this public forum but I'd be happy to share it with you. I assure you that you, too, would have been pushed to the edge of civility. It was literally a life and death situation. It would have been tragic as a singular event but it was actually a pattern of behavior by several teachers and administrators over time. How I managed not to be arrested during that time still puzzles me. I was on the edge of civility every day. I personally know of at least 4 other parents who went through similar situations with the same school.

The reason that the OP story resonates with me is that it has several of qualities of other stories that I personally know about. As a former teacher myself, I am well aware that parents can behave in a bizarre manner. I've had to deal with a few of those. I'm also aware that parent volunteers in schools can way overstep their bounds and need to be managed or even dismissed. There could be many underlying issues about the OP that none of us know about. As I said in a previous post, I will never support intimidation or threats directed at schools or school personnel. I also have no time for administrators who abuse their power. Those abuses are very often unchallenged and without consequences to those responsible.

mewalke wrote: I agree it is frustrating we don't know more, and I wish we did because as it stands, it sounds completely out of line. According to comments on the local news article, though, this principal and the school aren't anti-gun liberals with an agenda but rather pretty conservative. So there is still just too much unknown. It was a good article to stir up controversy and drive unique website visits for advertising revenue though.

It is certainly not scientific and there is no way to understand exactly who is posting what but the comments on this site are interesting.

http://www.greatschools.org/georgia/hep ... ab=reviews

Unless one believes that the comments are the result of a conspiracy against the principal (which I agree is possible), they do suggest that more than one parent is not satisfied. I fully agree with the quote attributed to Church that those without enemies are ones who have never stood for anything so I would be very suspicious of a complete set of glowing reports, too.

Sometimes, there are just personal conflicts that find their way into the public space and are easily exploited by the media. I also admit to a strong bias against some school administrators. My interactions with them as a teacher, a parent, a citizen and a taxpayer suggest that I can usually tell the overly pompous ones in less than 2 minutes. My experience with those is that vast majority are wildly Liberal and buy into that whole line of thinking, right down to a strong anti-gun bias. I also admit that my personal experiences don't come close to a scientific study or result.

I may try to poke around at this situation to see if any real facts can be gleaned. As you suggest, short of a FOIA, there probably won't be anything else which comes out easily.

mewalke wrote:Based on the local news article that Fox linked to:

Principal Dallas says several PTO members pointed out instances where Mount would disrupt classes and where Mount said she wouldn't let anybody bother her daughter

The principal says with the rash of school shootings, coupled with Mount's comments and the permit, it was cause for alarm.

So it sounds as though the mom was not afraid to speak her mind and had a history of standing up and questioning the schools decisions.

There is still far too much that isn't known. But based on the facts presented in the two articles, I don't think a criminal trespass order is justifiable.

So why weren't the PTO sources separately queried? So far, it is a she said/she said between the mom and the principal. The "rash of school shootings" has absolutely nothing to do with a Georgia licensed CCW.

It is probably better that the mom and her daughter are now in a separate school. But that does not let the principal off the hook. There needs to be a superintendent level query of the situation and appropriate action taken from the findings. Typically, however, these matters are swept under the rug within the school administration. That is why they continue. I still would like to know who issued and/or enforced the no trespass ruling. And there is explaining to do about the principal's knowledge of the FB post in the first place.

C-dub wrote:

chasfm11 wrote:I've seen some very interesting responses to those who are openly critical of the schools and our judicial system. We'll see how this thread goes from here.

Personally, the principal is entitled to his or her paranoia over guns. They can do that privately all they want. What set me off on this one is using the power of the school and/or the judiciary (verdict is still out on that) to amplify that paranoia. I'm sick of "but he/she was just protecting the school."

For me, this is in the same vain as the New York newspaper publishing the addresses of gun license holders "to protect the public." If we have any hope of expanding gun rights, we have to start finding a way to confront these situations as they happen.

I forgot to mention in my other reply to you that this whole thing actually started with the mom posting a picture of her CCW license on FB. I don't know if the principal's actions are potentially illegal or not or some kind of violation of her rights, but hers were neither. Hers was just dumb.

Also, neither of us understands the personal interactions, if there were any, between the mother and the principal. I cannot believe that the FB posting was the singular event in this matter. One of the most intriguing questions yet to be answered is how the principal knew about the FB picture.

I would doubt that the principal's actions were illegal. But, in the absence of any other evidence, they are an abuse of power.

I've seen some very interesting responses to those who are openly critical of the schools and our judicial system. We'll see how this thread goes from here.

Personally, the principal is entitled to his or her paranoia over guns. They can do that privately all they want. What set me off on this one is using the power of the school and/or the judiciary (verdict is still out on that) to amplify that paranoia. I'm sick of "but he/she was just protecting the school."

For me, this is in the same vain as the New York newspaper publishing the addresses of gun license holders "to protect the public." If we have any hope of expanding gun rights, we have to start finding a way to confront these situations as they happen.

OK. My flame suit is on.

I do not fault the principal. Yes, the principal is a jerk. But this was a no trespass order issued for a public building...by whom? For what? I do appreciate that Georgia may have different laws but it is my understanding that in order to get even a restraining order, evidence of a threat must be presented to a judge. The judge involved should be asking some questions:

1. What is the school doing snooping on the Facebook pages of its parents? A valid explanation had better follow.
2. Was there any evidence of a threat and if so, specifically what was it? If the only evidence available is the picture of the CCW, the judge is a far bigger jerk than the principal and a judicial review needs to be held immediately. At a minimum, the judge needs a counseling session. I'd be included to request removal. There is no way on this green earth that a State issued identification, by itself, represents anything bad. Any judicial official who believes it does needs to have served their last day in that capacity.

Our educational system is rife with principals who believe that the schools are their own private fiefdoms and that somehow their unelected position gives them power of the community that they serve. I've personally dealt with too many of those types and I have absolutely no time for them. But they can only have the powers that officials from other branches of government grant to them. If the principal presented his or her incipient, unfounded fears of a concealed license a judge, the judge should have chewed him or her out and called the superintendent. How dare the school system attempt to trample on the rights of a parent to pick up their kid from school without cause

We, the people, need to start taking back our educational system. If stuff like this is allowed to ride, we are assuring that other things that go on inside the school will be even worse.

You don't even want to know what I think if it was LE on their own that allowed this to principal's order to stand without a judge.

If there were threats or attempts at intimidation by the parent, that resets everything. I can go off just a quickly on someone who threatens the school or its officials. I get it that posting a picture of the CCW on Facebook wasn't the smartest thing to do. I won't have done that. But it is also not a crime or a hint of another crime.