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baldeagle

jimlongley wrote:The problem is that many businesses and their employees think that just about any sign is valid, gun busters, undersize or wrongly worded 30.06, and "Buffalo Wild Wings, Inc. bans gun on these premises." included. I have asked many of these folks, managers and employees, if they thought their signage was valid, and almost universally they have stated that it is. Actually one of the funniest is a Home Depot person who says that because HD's employee policy was no weapons allowed, that it also meant that HD bans guns on premises. Her statement was that, due to the employee policy, we could tell anyone that carry was not legal, and they would not be able to ever carry in a HD again.

Doesn't this support fickman's "out of sight, out of mind" position? After all, they think they're gun free but CHL holders know they can carry there legally. So his suggestion to remove all restrictions from CHL holders (after all, who's gonna know anyway?) and apply 30.06 to OC actually makes sense.

Now, in the real world, we're never going to be able to carry in jails or courthouses, but the rest of the current restrictions are rather nonsensical since no one even knows we're armed.

baldeagle

SF18C wrote:I will allow some mid ground in my thinking...yes some establishments may need to put up a 30.06 in order to maintain their marke-ablity but are not against the 2A as a whole.

While I am not convinced that OC is any type of requirement for my family and me; I guess I look at the whole debate from more of a “follow the money” angle.
I 100% agree with the 51% signs but I am bit taken aback by a 30.06 at a shoe store. Yes, it is that storeowners RIGHT to put up a 30.06 but we clearly know where that owner stands on the the 2A. And we can choose to not support their establishment. But you also have the right to enter a 30.06 establishment, you can make the choice to disarm yourself to probably support those that may want to disarm you permanently.

Now for those establishments that don’t put the sign up because of its “ugly nature” ; well we could be forking over good money to those that use their profits to support gun banning organizations and regulations. Putting a big ol’ sign on the front of your store that says “your gun money is no good here” is fine by me. I don’t want to restrict access for anyone to defend themselves, but if I clearly know who is anti-2A then I can make informed decisions on how to spend my money. Granted only 500,000 out of 26 million (~2%) have a Texas CHL so it may not be a big market to cater to but we are growing and even my kid knows what a 30.06 looks like!

I guess this is the same reasoning that I do not go to the movies and support the ultra left lib actors by paying $10 to see a movie and another $15 for popcorn and Coke, just to have the same liberal actors tell me how bad guns are!

And that's all fine and good for you and for other equally-minded people (like myself), but we must never forget that the purpose of the CHL is to allow people to defend themselves in a stressful and life-threatening situation. The more we create situations that result in further restriction of our rights, the more people will die in situations where they could have defended themselves.

So, while being ardent about our rights and demanding that they be recognized is a good thing, it's not wise to lose sight of the fact that people's lives are on the line. Every time the antis complain about guns we point out that crime goes down where CHL is allowed, which means lives are being saved. If that argument is valid (and it most certainly is) then the obverse is equally true. The more restrictions that are placed on carry, the more lives that are at risk and the more lives that will be lost. After all, in the end, the right we should cherish the most and fight tooth and nail to preserve is not the right to carry a gun but the right to self defense.

Guns may become obsolete some day. The right to self defense never will.

baldeagle

WhiteFeather wrote:For give me ..... I've kinda been poring over this legalese for weeks. What are the realistic outcomes of the OC bills in plain speak. What's the hubbub about the 30.06 signs as being game changers if they have 'em up and I don't agree I'll just go somewhere else .... easy.

We all know that your experience is the only one that matters, right. It couldn't possibly be that the experience of others is worth a hoot. So if it's easy for you, it's easy for everybody else, right?

There's over 500,000 CHL holders in Texas. They all don't think like you or have the same options you have. Stop assuming they do.

Texas is the only state in the union, AFAIK, that has a 30.06 type requirement for signs. It was done deliberately to make the sign less palatable to store owners and "encourage" them not to use it. It is completely naive to think that, if open carry is passed and 30.06 applies to it as well, not one single business owner will put up a 30.06 sign after seeing an open carrier walk in to their store. It's also naive to think that store owners should only care about your rights and not be concerned about other customers who think differently than you do.

Whether you like it or not, a lot of Americans don't agree that you should be allowed to openly carry weapons wherever you like. That's reality. So, when you open carry into a store, someone will complain. When they do, if that store then takes away CHL holder's rights to carry as well by putting up a 30.06 sign, some of those CHL holders will be very unhappy with open carry activists. Maybe even unhappy enough to lobby to ban open carry.

You eat an elephant one bite at a time. Open carry advocates seem to think you can swallow the dern thing whole. What they don't seem to think about is the major indigestion that may result from that overeating.

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