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- Mon May 11, 2015 3:06 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: CITY: 2 GUNMEN KILLED OUTSIDE MUHAMMAD CARTOON CONTEST
- Replies: 187
- Views: 29768
Re: CITY: 2 GUNMEN KILLED OUTSIDE MUHAMMAD CARTOON CONTEST
Thanks n5wd. My search is complete! Now comes the hard part...
- Sat May 09, 2015 1:52 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: CITY: 2 GUNMEN KILLED OUTSIDE MUHAMMAD CARTOON CONTEST
- Replies: 187
- Views: 29768
Re: CITY: 2 GUNMEN KILLED OUTSIDE MUHAMMAD CARTOON CONTEST
ShootDontTalk,
I am not of the religious sort. Not to say that I don't believe in anything, but for me it is something else. That does not prevent me from learning about any of the other religions, and protecting those of different faiths. I have read the Bible a few times (King James and a few "easier to read" versions) and I am working on the Quran right now. I have found a translation (through my university's library) that seems pretty accurate. And I do not plan on stopping there.
I agree with you about the lack of the calling of the arms. And you are right. It does not fall into the realm of revenge. Simply by saying that Christians are being persecuted once again, and we (either as individuals or a country) must stand up against the theological tyranny of certain groups. Yet, it should not matter what creed or faith we are protecting against or for. If Hindus were the ones perpetrating such acts, against some Druids, then we should act the same. (And yes, I know, Hinduism preaches non-violence, even though Ghandi preached self defense.)
Revenge: to exact punishment or expiation for a wrong on behalf of, especially in a resentful or vindictive spirit (Dictionary.com)
Per this definition, revenge must be vindictive/resentful punishment. However mad we may be about what has happened, we must push for justice and not revenge. The justice we must push for must be commensurate to their acts of evil. It sometimes sucks being the "lawful good" individual, but that is the line we must hold. Not as mad Christians, but as an American people. We should not stoop to their level. That does not mean that we don't "let slip the dogs of war", but we must not degenerate to their level. We must hold the moral high ground. I believe the passages that TAM posted makes this point. We should not be wrathful and full of hatred when we make these decisions. We must be just and fair.
The trick is knowing when enough is enough, and how far we should go. I am of the belief that we need to figure out a better way to a) train and fight effectively enough that b) the country that we are fighting in can stand up and c) run itself when we are done. We do not need to be the world's police, we have enough issues of our own to deal with.
Sorry for the diatribe, but I have had a fair few Soldiers try to pull the "play by their rules" card on me. Many of them have been young Soldiers, that did not fully conceptualize that the Army is a Profession of Arms, and that we must act as Professionals at all times. Not to mention it is part of my job to convince those around me to listen to our reports.
P.S. Thanks for the discussion. It is definitely helping make work go by a little faster. And thanks for the suggestion. It will go on my reading list. And most of them do tend to agree that it is twisted interpretation. The biggest basis on that lies at the definition of a Caliph and the Caliphate. And THAT discussion definitely doesn't belong in this section. IT would take up way to much space.
I am not of the religious sort. Not to say that I don't believe in anything, but for me it is something else. That does not prevent me from learning about any of the other religions, and protecting those of different faiths. I have read the Bible a few times (King James and a few "easier to read" versions) and I am working on the Quran right now. I have found a translation (through my university's library) that seems pretty accurate. And I do not plan on stopping there.
I agree with you about the lack of the calling of the arms. And you are right. It does not fall into the realm of revenge. Simply by saying that Christians are being persecuted once again, and we (either as individuals or a country) must stand up against the theological tyranny of certain groups. Yet, it should not matter what creed or faith we are protecting against or for. If Hindus were the ones perpetrating such acts, against some Druids, then we should act the same. (And yes, I know, Hinduism preaches non-violence, even though Ghandi preached self defense.)
Revenge: to exact punishment or expiation for a wrong on behalf of, especially in a resentful or vindictive spirit (Dictionary.com)
Per this definition, revenge must be vindictive/resentful punishment. However mad we may be about what has happened, we must push for justice and not revenge. The justice we must push for must be commensurate to their acts of evil. It sometimes sucks being the "lawful good" individual, but that is the line we must hold. Not as mad Christians, but as an American people. We should not stoop to their level. That does not mean that we don't "let slip the dogs of war", but we must not degenerate to their level. We must hold the moral high ground. I believe the passages that TAM posted makes this point. We should not be wrathful and full of hatred when we make these decisions. We must be just and fair.
The trick is knowing when enough is enough, and how far we should go. I am of the belief that we need to figure out a better way to a) train and fight effectively enough that b) the country that we are fighting in can stand up and c) run itself when we are done. We do not need to be the world's police, we have enough issues of our own to deal with.
Sorry for the diatribe, but I have had a fair few Soldiers try to pull the "play by their rules" card on me. Many of them have been young Soldiers, that did not fully conceptualize that the Army is a Profession of Arms, and that we must act as Professionals at all times. Not to mention it is part of my job to convince those around me to listen to our reports.
P.S. Thanks for the discussion. It is definitely helping make work go by a little faster. And thanks for the suggestion. It will go on my reading list. And most of them do tend to agree that it is twisted interpretation. The biggest basis on that lies at the definition of a Caliph and the Caliphate. And THAT discussion definitely doesn't belong in this section. IT would take up way to much space.
- Sat May 09, 2015 1:02 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: CITY: 2 GUNMEN KILLED OUTSIDE MUHAMMAD CARTOON CONTEST
- Replies: 187
- Views: 29768
Re: CITY: 2 GUNMEN KILLED OUTSIDE MUHAMMAD CARTOON CONTEST
Most of them are serving in the Armed Forces of our country. One of them, that I personally work with, (however much he disagrees with the drawings) personally hates what the shooters tried to do. He supports the Constitution as a whole. And he has defended it many times over. We are not stationed near Texas. He does the same thing most of us do. He tries to educate those around him. Whereas we teach about firearms and everything related to them, he tries to educate those around him about what his faith means. The same as any Christian, Budddhist or Jew. He cannot personally effect it on a large scale. Instead he effects those around him. The same as most of us. The difference is, he doesn't try to convert, only explain why it is not his faith that is the main issue. But the interpretations and the actions of those that twist and abuse it. Kind of like the Westboro Baptist folks.
- Sat May 09, 2015 12:28 pm
- Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
- Topic: CITY: 2 GUNMEN KILLED OUTSIDE MUHAMMAD CARTOON CONTEST
- Replies: 187
- Views: 29768
Re: CITY: 2 GUNMEN KILLED OUTSIDE MUHAMMAD CARTOON CONTEST
TAM,
I do not know exactly what the Quran says (I cannot read Arabic), but (as far as I understand it) it says something similar. I am not an expert by any means, but I have endeavored to do my research, and there is A LOT more that I do not understand. But I do understand a bit. There is a provision in there that they must spread their Word, no matter what. And some of their laws are supposed to follow the way the Prophet Muhammed lived. Between both of those, I believe it says that spreading it by the sword is allowed, even encouraged. And, as ISIS has imposed, there IS a special tax (a jizyah tax) that some Christians can pay, in order to keep their heads. Other Muslims that have forsaken their faith (in ISIS's eyes) are dead to them, literally. At the core of it all though is the interpretation. I have known many Muslims, and none of them support this kind of violence. Most, if not all, are more than willing to stop it themselves.
Please correct me if any of y'all know better than I do. I am more than willing learn as much as I can about this.
Teraph
I do not know exactly what the Quran says (I cannot read Arabic), but (as far as I understand it) it says something similar. I am not an expert by any means, but I have endeavored to do my research, and there is A LOT more that I do not understand. But I do understand a bit. There is a provision in there that they must spread their Word, no matter what. And some of their laws are supposed to follow the way the Prophet Muhammed lived. Between both of those, I believe it says that spreading it by the sword is allowed, even encouraged. And, as ISIS has imposed, there IS a special tax (a jizyah tax) that some Christians can pay, in order to keep their heads. Other Muslims that have forsaken their faith (in ISIS's eyes) are dead to them, literally. At the core of it all though is the interpretation. I have known many Muslims, and none of them support this kind of violence. Most, if not all, are more than willing to stop it themselves.
Please correct me if any of y'all know better than I do. I am more than willing learn as much as I can about this.
Teraph