TexasCHLforum.com

rm9792 wrote:Ok. Surprised me on that one, You are usually a very accurate Frog.

Got my states mixed up.

rm9792 wrote:Quote it please. You are not required to have ID on you at all times.

I corrected my post.

I'd like to discuss further one aspect of your response regarding identification.

srothstein wrote:You do have to identify to a peace officer (Texas peace officer as defined in Article 2.12 of the Code of Criminal Procedure - this does not include federal officers) or magistrate (as defined in Article 2.09 of the CCP - note the inclusion of mayors and city recorders) if he asks. The law says:

Sec. 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

I do not read that the same way as you.

There are two pre-conditions:

1. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person . . . .
2. when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification,

With one resulting requirement:

• the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

There are limited circumstances when a peace officer can demand a person to display identification. As you noted, incident to arrest. The way I read it, if they do not have the authority to demand identification, then they do not meet the requirements to display the CHL in addition to the Texas DL/ID.

Of course, as I noted previously, if a peace officer has reasonable articulable suspicion to justify an investigative detention because the LEO believes someone carrying, and that person refuses to identify himself, then that will play out with a frisk and arrest. A CHL is simply better off identifying himself and avoiding the whole drama.

Also, you seemed to view an officer asking me for my name as the same as demanding identification. Maybe that is how an LEO views it, but I wouldn't. If someone asked me for my name, I would not assume that I need to provide my CHL and DL. If someone asks for my drivers license, then I would certainly provide both.

Ruark wrote:Getting a few conflicting responses here..... so can an LEO legally - LEGALLY - ask you if you're CCW if he's not detaining you for some reason? Say you're sitting in a restaurant. A couple of tables away are some state troopers on their lunch break. One of them gets up and walks over to you and asks if you're CCW. Can he do that? If he can't legally, but he does, are you required to answer?

First, an LEO can ask anyone anything at any time. It is no different than any ordinary person in Walmart walking up to you and asking you a question. They are both legal activities. You have no obligation to talk to either the LEO or the Walmart shopper.

However, if the LEO detains you to question you, they must have reasonable articulable suspicion ("RAS") to do so without your consent. If he walked over to you to ask if you are carrying a concealed weapon, he evidently has a suspicion that you are carrying and can probably articulate it -- otherwise, why would he walk over and ask? Since unlicensed carry of a concealed weapon is a crime in Texas, and he evidently has RAS, he can not only detain you, but he can require you to identify yourself.

Since the end-game here is the LEO asking for ID and you being required to produce both ID and CHL, it is simpler to just defuse everything by calmly letting him know that your licensed and you are currently armed.

Note that this would be different in a "Constitutional Carry" state. There, having a firearm on you is not a crime so the officer has no RAS to either detain you or demand identification.

All that is legally required is to provide a copy of your CHL with your identification when you are armed and required to provide ID.

EDITED CORRECTION:
There is a Texas statute that states you have to identify yourself when arrested, and cannot give a false name/address/DOB when you are lawfully arrested, lawfully detained, or a witness to a crime. (Sec 38.02) There is already ample case law at the federal appellate and SCOTUS level on when you are allowed to be detained, questioned and required to identify yourself.

So for the security guard, ignore him. For an LEO, if he has a legal reason to demand ID, such as reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime, then provide the CHL with the ID.

If he just walks up to you and asks you if you have a gun, you can legally refuse to speak with him if you want to and realize asking if you have a gun is not the same as asking for ID. However, real world practicality being what it is, I'd suggest the smoothest encounter would be a low key and friendly response along the lines of, "Yes, I am both licensed and carrying. Why do you ask, am I showing without be aware of it?"