baldeagle wrote:This is bad advice.drjoker wrote:The most important thing is NOT to talk to police before your lawyer gets there.
That would not be my advice, either.
I know we are quibbling over minor distinctions, but that is far more specific that I would personally be. Here are the guidelines I have decided to follow, should I ever face these circumstance.baldeagle wrote:When the police arrive, you should give them a specific account of what took place. E.g. I was walking down this sidewalk when that man on the ground jumped out of that doorway, pointed a gun at me and said, "Give me all your money." I threw my wallet over there (point to wallet), and when he turned to retrieve it, I drew my weapon, pointed it at him and told him to freeze. He turned toward me, gun in hand, and I was afraid he was going to shoot. So I shot him. He dropped his gun and it ended up over there (point to gun). When I was certain he was no longer a threat, I called 911. There were three witnesses, but two of them have left. The gentleman standing across the street saw the whole thing.
{Jumping Frog: Below are my personal notes that I took while watching an episode on "Personal Defense TV" a couple of years ago, summarizing Massad Ayoob's 5 critical points to remember immediately following a shooting. I believe these are within TOS, because they are my personal notes -- this is not cut and pasted from a copyrighted article.}
Before we get into the five points, I always worry that the police are called for a "man with a gun". I am the man with the gun. That is why one of the critical skills that we teach is not just being able to draw quickly without looking at the gun, but being able to keep an eye on the danger zone while holstering one-handed by feel so you can see what is going on around you, and when the officer gets there you are not the threatening figure with the pistol. You are the person in the non-threatening position, say your hands are about shoulder high with palms forward showing you are unarmed.
Call the Police.
When they arrive, "Officer, I am the one who called you, this is the man who attacked me, he may still have a weapon, I do not know if there are any more."
Whoever calls in first gets to be the victim complainant. There is only one other role open in the play, and that's the perpetrator. You want to be the one who makes the telephone call. The perpetrator is laying there in a puddle of blood doing a remarkably convincing imitation of a victim. You by default become the perp if you do not make the call in. The system is keyed on the assumption that whoever made that initial call is the victim.
I think there are five points that really need to be covered here. A lot of folks will say don't say anything until your lawyer gets there. That's too late, there are a lot of things the cops need to know before they can establish in their mind who's the good guy and who's the bad guy. The 5 point checklist I teach is this:
- Officer, this man attacked me.
- I will sign the complaint.
- Evidence is here.
- The witnesses are there.
- Officer, you will have my full cooperation in 24 hours after I have spoken with counsel.
I did one case in Connecticut. The shooting went down on a cold, icy night. The spent brass will literally blow across an icy street from the wind and from passing cars. If you look at it, 9 MM or 45 brass is just the right size to get caught in the treads of people's shoes or in the treads of passing cars. The evidence that he shot at you if you don't point it out to the officers is gone and it is never coming back. The witnesses are over here thinking could this be some drug shooting or vengeful gang-banger. They don't know what's going on. "Do we really want to get involved?" If they leave, the testimony that would have proven you innocent leaves with them.
So basically, to recap:
- Point out Perpetrator to Police. ("This man attacked me, clearly showing he is the perpetrator, you are the victim).
- Tell Police you will "Sign the Complaint". ("I will sign the complaint." Cop language that tells them, "He is the victim complainant, the guy on the ground is the subject of the complaint.)
- Point out the evidence to the police.
- Point out Witnesses to Police.
- Will Give Full Cooperation in 24 hours After speaking with Attorney. (From then on, whatever else is said, "Officer, you know how serious this is. You will have my full cooperation in 24 hours after I have spoken with counsel").
{I especially agree with the common sense notion that you never get a second chance to make a first impression. You must set the tone in the first seconds and minutes of dealing with law enforcement.
Personally, I have weighed the pros and cons of keeping totally silent versus dealing with the five points, above. I look at this way. If I actually become a criminal and start deliberately committing crimes, then I will follow the defense attorney's suggestion to keep my mouth shut.
However, if I am a law abiding citizen who has just encountered a BG perpetrating a felony on me, I will act like an honest citizen and make the complaint per the guidelines above. It seems like a reasonable course to take.}