TexasCHLforum.com

mojo84 wrote:captain, here is your comment in response to someone that said they showed their chl along with their ID.

You don't have to show CHL. The LEO should already know you have CHL. Only if he asks for it specifically.....for which he should have some valid reason.

I think this is bad advice and hope you don't teach the same to your students.

Obviously, you are either not reading my posts or cant comprehend them. Because if you had read ALL of them you would know that that comment wasn't meant as "advice" but exactly what the law means realistically and how it can applied realistically or better put.....not applied realistically in this case. You would also know what I teach and recommend to my students or prospective students since I specifically mentioned what I teach as it applies to LEO traffic stops. If you don't or cant read my posts thoroughly to understand what I am saying or have said and simply want to assume, argue, and make personal judgments, please do not respond. I don't come here for that. I come here to civilly discuss Texas CHL laws and sometimes the controversial or vague ones as well. Thank you.....have a nice day.

mojo84 wrote:Just because there isn't a penalty doesn't mean the law doesn't require it.

Understood. But, IMO, the law needs a clarification.

Keith B wrote:
Now, there is a gray area with the fact that a non-licensed person may carry in their vehicle and is not required to inform if armed. There are differences in opinion on which law trumps which. Some say CHL trumps MPA and you have to present your license. Others stay MPA trumps CHL and you don't.

That is what I am speaking about. And I feel that because I am speaking about that, some in here are automatically ASSUMING that I am recommending not showing your credentials unless asked. I AM NOT DOING THAT. Please read my comments carefully. I teach all my students to advise the LEO that you are a CHL holder when you are carrying.

mojo84 wrote:captain, I suggest you do a search on the forum and or contact Charles Cotton or Keith B regarding this. They are highly informed on this and many other related subjects. I especially encourage you to do it if you are or plan to be an instructor.

I am an instructor, and Im just telling you about what was discussed in Georgetown TX during instructor training. The student instructors came out with the understanding that, strictly legally speaking, it wasn't necessary to show CHL credentials unless specifically asked. Can you show me a penalty for failing to show CHL license IF the LEO doesn't ask for it and you are carrying? There is none that I am aware of. Why would the state penalize/punish a CHL holder for not automatically showing their CHL license when carrying in their vehicle when a non-CHL holder can carry legally in a vehicle without credentials? That's the only point Im making......not telling anyone what to do. I highly recommend to anyone who is carrying in their vehicle to either show their credentials or state that they are a CHL holder.

mojo84 wrote:

sunny beach wrote:

captainkbt wrote:

sunny beach wrote:We have to show it when the peace officer demands identification, such as a drivers license. He doesn't need to specifically ask for the CHL.

Not necessarily.....

How about we cite verifiable sources for our opinions?

I'll go first. Texas Government Code 411.205.

Interestingly, he cited the same code. He just has a different interpretation. One that I think just may cause him some headache should the right occasion arise.

No....no headaches. If I am carrying and I get stopped, I ask the LEO if he would like to see my CHL. If I am not carrying, then it is irrelevant.

WildBill wrote:

captainkbt wrote:

mojo84 wrote:Can you cite the source that says the officer already knows, one doesn't have to show chl and that he must ask for is specifically. In other words, pretty much all of it except the part regarding it being legal to carry in car concealed.

Source was a DPS officer instructor during CHL instructor training. Told us that LEOs already have that information when they pull you over and run a check prior to approaching your vehicle. Since then, I was told only DPS has this information but I have aslo heard other LEO agencies that have the information on the check. I was stopped by DPS and he asked me for my TDL, insurance, and CHL when he walked up to my window. I always assume an LEO already knows I have a CHL.

Regarding to show or not to show CHL on a stop. Legally speaking, according to Texas Government Code 411.205, you don't have to show your CHL ID until the LEO "demands" that you show it.....and only when you are carrying.

GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

IMO, when the LEO "asks" for your DL or ID, he is "demanding" that you show your DL and CHL [if carrying].

It can be construed that way....and Im sure that the statute was not changed after the new vehicle carry statute was changed in 2007. We got into a big debate on this issue amongst the students and DPS in Georgetown during instructor training over which "identification" the legislation was speaking to. Our DPS instructor even sided with some of the students that, again....legally speaking, a CHL doesn't have to be produced until the LEO specifically "demands" it when carrying. Why? Because in 2007 the state began allowing carrying in vehicles WITHOUT a CHL. So the reasoning is..... why would a civilian who does not have a CHL be allowed to carry in his vehicle and so would not be required to produce any CHL license but a CHL holder still would be? In other words, if you meet the standards, a CHL holder is carrying legally in his vehicle regardless if he/she holds a CHL license or not. So there is no punishable requirement to fail to do so. Make sense?

sunny beach wrote:We have to show it when the peace officer demands identification, such as a drivers license. He doesn't need to specifically ask for the CHL.

Not necessarily.....

mojo84 wrote:Can you cite the source that says the officer already knows, one doesn't have to show chl and that he must ask for is specifically. In other words, pretty much all of it except the part regarding it being legal to carry in car concealed.

Source was a DPS officer instructor during CHL instructor training. Told us that LEOs already have that information when they pull you over and run a check prior to approaching your vehicle. Since then, I was told only DPS has this information but I have aslo heard other LEO agencies that have the information on the check. I was stopped by DPS and he asked me for my TDL, insurance, and CHL when he walked up to my window. I always assume an LEO already knows I have a CHL.

Regarding to show or not to show CHL on a stop. Legally speaking, according to Texas Government Code 411.205, you don't have to show your CHL ID until the LEO "demands" that you show it.....and only when you are carrying.

GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

mojo84 wrote:

captainkbt wrote:

edgar0400 wrote:Hey guys on a side note I want to comment on Arlington leo.
I got stopped on Thursday by leo because my inspection was expired. He asked for Id so I showed my DL and CHL and he was really cool about it. Didn't make a big deal about my carrying he only asked where it was and nothing else. This was my first time being stopped by Leo. I have to say it wasn't a bad experience at all.

You don't have to show CHL. The LEO should already know you have CHL. Only if he asks for it specifically.....for which he should have some valid reason. Remember, you can carry a concealed handgun in your vehicle in Texas without CHL.

What part are you confused by?

edgar0400 wrote:Hey guys on a side note I want to comment on Arlington leo.
I got stopped on Thursday by leo because my inspection was expired. He asked for Id so I showed my DL and CHL and he was really cool about it. Didn't make a big deal about my carrying he only asked where it was and nothing else. This was my first time being stopped by Leo. I have to say it wasn't a bad experience at all.

You don't have to show CHL. The LEO should already know you have CHL. Only if he asks for it specifically.....for which he should have some valid reason. Remember, you can carry a concealed handgun in your vehicle in Texas without CHL.