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Hoi Polloi wrote:

Slowplay wrote:What is the objective of trying to make people believe that liberals support gun rights? I know what the danger is, if people believe that.

I read this article the other day on circumcision that I think perfectly exemplifies why....

I should have been clear that I meant the objective in the political process and not for individual decisions. To advance your example of deciding on circumcision a few years, the story about Little Red Riding Hood may help demonstrate the point I was trying to make.

VeggieRonin wrote:There's a little thing called "cognitive dissonance" that makes it hard for everyone to accept new conflicting data. This is a well-demonstrated psychological phenomenon. But we should first realize that there are plenty of pro-gun people that applies to as well. There's quite a bit of psychological data on the approach to changing minds, and that is supposedly the best approach. I've rarely seen it as well - but keep in mind these are rare things generally speaking, not just for gun issues.

Most people when they hear the term "liberal" are thinking of modern liberals/progressives. They normally don't think to themselves whether a person is closer to a John Locke liberal or a John Rawls liberal.

What is the objective of trying to make people believe that liberals support gun rights? I know what the danger is, if people believe that.

VeggieRonin wrote:Snatchel you don't have to apologize to me.
As long as 2nd Amendment issues are a culture war between "us" and "them" we will make no progress. As soon as these issues are about shared values as Americans that don't have anything to do with other beliefs, we have a chance to help people understand. This is not a "conservative" or "liberal" thing - it's an American civil rights, tolerance, and privacy thing.
/lecture

The shared values we should all have is respect for and an understanding of the U.S. Constitution. Throwing away labels such as conservative and liberal/progressive doesn't actually help anyone but liberal/progressives that would choose to "make progress" and "fix" things behind a curtain or cloud of smoke.

Maybe my memory fails me, but wasn't there a guy that used to say "it shouldn't be about red states and blue states, it should be about the United States" - and isn't that the same guy that's turned out to be one of the most partisan/divisive presidents the U.S. has ever seen in recent history? I guess it's okay though, it's not like he's been stacking the the Supreme Court with those that threaten the 2nd Amendment (and other individual rights)...[/rant off]