TexasCHLforum.com

MeMelYup wrote:The best way if you have an altercation is tell the police; "officer I would like you to inform this person of criminal trespass." Usually the office twill be glad to and will insert it into their notes so there will be a hostelry that the individual was informed.

yea but the bad part is that the person may have already done bad things at the property and the LEO won't do a thing because its a he said, he said problem even a lot of times with video

steveincowtown wrote:

JP171 wrote: Like I said before LEO's don't consider your telling a person to leave to be legal notice, they have to do it. The Sign makes all of that moot by the virtue of a printed sign

Not sure that is accurate.

Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:

(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or

(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.

(b) For purposes of this section:

(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.

(2) "Notice" means:

(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;

As I said previously I don't have any issue with the fact that property owners should have the right to ASK people to leave. I just don't think the state should provide signs which preempt this to a criminal level.

I have run in to this so many times I am sick of it, I tell you to leave my property you tell me where to go and what to do with myself and the cop tells me oh well too bad so sad and leaves after telling me he can't do anything, bout a hundred times so far. I really wish cop would do the job they were paid to do, I have had 1 and only 1 arrest a trespasser and take them to jail and it wasn't for trespassing it was for public intoxication, so yea that's how it goes. the LEO's will NOT arrest someone for criminal trespass unless they do the warning because the DA won't prosecute the crime. it may be that Harris and Galveston County deputies and local law enforcement officers and DA are just too lazy but I think it is in more than just here

Ma'am, most contracts allow for emergency entry without notice and everyone I have ever signed has that clause in it, if your dumping water on the unit downstairs I gotta get in and shut it off, no notice required, now prove it didn't happen, its done all the time. on Commercial Property the Leasing agent or owner can enter at will period as ALL the leases are written that way.

I do understand that renters have rights, but the owner has a supremacy right under the law to protect his or her property no matter your rights to protect the owners property and the property of others.

but back to topic, I still think that a public business should be able to ask me to leave, but not to put up a sign that makes it a crime to wear red panties nor carry a weapon into the place of business just because of the sign. That's what is currently happening, you will be taken to jail if you violate the sign and get caught, you will be convicted and you will go to jail, without the sign or gun most cops won't even touch it other than to tell you to leave and not come back or you will be arrested for criminal trespass. Like I said before LEO's don't consider your telling a person to leave to be legal notice, they have to do it. The Sign makes all of that moot by the virtue of a printed sign

jnichols2 wrote:

JP171 wrote:

jnichols2 wrote:

JP171 wrote:

jnichols2 wrote:

steveincowtown wrote:

jnichols2 wrote:

steveincowtown wrote:#1> Private property rights are not absolute. In both our home and our business we must maintain certain standards that we as the public have decided are needed.

#2> I think a private property owner should be able to ASK anyone, at anytime, to leave their property for any reason.


#3> I don't think that it should be an offense to just enter any ones business, doing anything, without first being asked to leave. In other words, why do we have a sign that criminalizes trespass by a CHL with no other notice than just that sign? Think about how ridiculous it would seem if we attached the same standards to any other activity?

"Is this 911"

"Yes, it is."

" I need to report a gentleman who walked right passed by no shirt, no shoes sign."

"We are on our way."

I'm a "property rights" kind of guy.

If I start a business, on the property I own, I HAVE NOT given up the right to TELL anyone to leave my property.

I didn't communicate my point very well. As a private property owner I think you should be able to tell anyone, at anytime, for any reason, to leave your property.


I think if you see something (heck, even suspect something) for any reason that you don't like, you should be able to tell a person to leave and they should do so immediately. I just don't think there should be a sign for it.

I agree with the sign. I have no idea why it was written into the law the way it was, but I bet Charles Cotton could tell us.

My first experience was yesterday, the first full day with my new CHL.

At the entrance to the Saxett Gun Show in Austin was a 30.06 sign I had walked past without seeing for two years.
I just shrugged my shoulders, walked back to the parking lot, and secured my gun in the car.
They already had LEOs at the entrance to enforce it.
I never "saw" the sign before because I didn't know what it was then.

"The Law is for the Protection of the People." Kris Kristofferson

it is in a county owned facility its not enforceable but there is no case law as of yet proving that, there have been many discussions about it, some think that a short term rental of the hall negates the fact the building is owned by the county though no where in any law does it say that. me I walk past them when I go and that is rarely as you don't save a dime on anything in there

When you rent a home or place of business, you do acquire certain rights "as if you owned the property". Even the landlord can't just walk in.
Not sure if a 2 day short term rental counts. But the question was actually trumped by 3 armed LEOs prepared to enforce the sign.
The legal questions count in court among the lawyers, they do not count at the point of arrest among the arresting officers. The lawyers are later required.
Another sign stated that the LEOs performed "spot checks". I thought it best not to enter while carrying.

no it doesn't give you any renters rights at all, you get no keys you get nothing from the gubbermint that rented the space to you for 2 days. you still have to follow the rules as they see them, wee the saxet vs Austin thread. for an individual it is different when renting a room at the local motel 6 than a business renting from a county or city. also if you rent a house or apartment the landlord or owner can walk right in any time they want and you can't do squat about it, sorry you are mis informed, if its commercial property not only can the landlord walk in anytime they want they can lock you out and not allow you in anytime they want

I was informed by both the Air Force Legal Office and a private sector lawyer. The landlord has a right to inspect his property, and you must cooperate to schedule such a visit. If he uses his key to "walk in any time" he is trespassing, and you can have law enforcement evict him. When he rented to you, he assigned the control of the residence to you. That's what lease/rental is about. Also note: A car repossessor is actually outside the law if he doesn't have a court order.

The landlord CANNOT lock you out. A landlord in Austin just got his butt sued off for that. The landlord must petition a court, the court will empower the local Sherriff to evict you (lock you out). That's why it takes so much time and money to evict someone.

I won't speak to commercial property, as I have no actual experience. But, I suspect it's similar.

they can in fact lock you out as per state law, they must by law allow you to retrieve personal property( clothes pictures personal papers things like that) but not non personal property( furniture game systems TVs stuff like that) and they may sell such property to satisfy the debt owed on rent for domicile renters, commercial property they can lock you out and not let you get a single thing period as all business assets may be sold to satisfy the debt employees must prove ownership to be allowed to remove personal property. Hmm yep I know cause well yea I have done it and will do it as I need to do again. As for entry all I have to do is say that it was an emergency entry and your required notice goes away, oooops then prove there was no emergency. On top of all that most leases are a contract and if it states in the contract that the land lord can enter at will your stuck and most leases in the Houston area are written as such

jnichols2 wrote:

JP171 wrote:

jnichols2 wrote:

steveincowtown wrote:

jnichols2 wrote:

steveincowtown wrote:#1> Private property rights are not absolute. In both our home and our business we must maintain certain standards that we as the public have decided are needed.

#2> I think a private property owner should be able to ASK anyone, at anytime, to leave their property for any reason.


#3> I don't think that it should be an offense to just enter any ones business, doing anything, without first being asked to leave. In other words, why do we have a sign that criminalizes trespass by a CHL with no other notice than just that sign? Think about how ridiculous it would seem if we attached the same standards to any other activity?

"Is this 911"

"Yes, it is."

" I need to report a gentleman who walked right passed by no shirt, no shoes sign."

"We are on our way."

I'm a "property rights" kind of guy.

If I start a business, on the property I own, I HAVE NOT given up the right to TELL anyone to leave my property.

I didn't communicate my point very well. As a private property owner I think you should be able to tell anyone, at anytime, for any reason, to leave your property.


I think if you see something (heck, even suspect something) for any reason that you don't like, you should be able to tell a person to leave and they should do so immediately. I just don't think there should be a sign for it.

I agree with the sign. I have no idea why it was written into the law the way it was, but I bet Charles Cotton could tell us.

My first experience was yesterday, the first full day with my new CHL.

At the entrance to the Saxett Gun Show in Austin was a 30.06 sign I had walked past without seeing for two years.
I just shrugged my shoulders, walked back to the parking lot, and secured my gun in the car.
They already had LEOs at the entrance to enforce it.
I never "saw" the sign before because I didn't know what it was then.

"The Law is for the Protection of the People." Kris Kristofferson

it is in a county owned facility its not enforceable but there is no case law as of yet proving that, there have been many discussions about it, some think that a short term rental of the hall negates the fact the building is owned by the county though no where in any law does it say that. me I walk past them when I go and that is rarely as you don't save a dime on anything in there

When you rent a home or place of business, you do acquire certain rights "as if you owned the property". Even the landlord can't just walk in.
Not sure if a 2 day short term rental counts. But the question was actually trumped by 3 armed LEOs prepared to enforce the sign.
The legal questions count in court among the lawyers, they do not count at the point of arrest among the arresting officers. The lawyers are later required.
Another sign stated that the LEOs performed "spot checks". I thought it best not to enter while carrying.

no it doesn't give you any renters rights at all, you get no keys you get nothing from the gubbermint that rented the space to you for 2 days. you still have to follow the rules as they see them, wee the saxet vs Austin thread. for an individual it is different when renting a room at the local motel 6 than a business renting from a county or city. also if you rent a house or apartment the landlord or owner can walk right in any time they want and you can't do squat about it, sorry you are mis informed, if its commercial property not only can the landlord walk in anytime they want they can lock you out and not allow you in anytime they want

jnichols2 wrote:

steveincowtown wrote:

jnichols2 wrote:

steveincowtown wrote:#1> Private property rights are not absolute. In both our home and our business we must maintain certain standards that we as the public have decided are needed.

#2> I think a private property owner should be able to ASK anyone, at anytime, to leave their property for any reason.


#3> I don't think that it should be an offense to just enter any ones business, doing anything, without first being asked to leave. In other words, why do we have a sign that criminalizes trespass by a CHL with no other notice than just that sign? Think about how ridiculous it would seem if we attached the same standards to any other activity?

"Is this 911"

"Yes, it is."

" I need to report a gentleman who walked right passed by no shirt, no shoes sign."

"We are on our way."

I'm a "property rights" kind of guy.

If I start a business, on the property I own, I HAVE NOT given up the right to TELL anyone to leave my property.

I didn't communicate my point very well. As a private property owner I think you should be able to tell anyone, at anytime, for any reason, to leave your property.


I think if you see something (heck, even suspect something) for any reason that you don't like, you should be able to tell a person to leave and they should do so immediately. I just don't think there should be a sign for it.

I agree with the sign. I have no idea why it was written into the law the way it was, but I bet Charles Cotton could tell us.

My first experience was yesterday, the first full day with my new CHL.

At the entrance to the Saxett Gun Show in Austin was a 30.06 sign I had walked past without seeing for two years.
I just shrugged my shoulders, walked back to the parking lot, and secured my gun in the car.
They already had LEOs at the entrance to enforce it.
I never "saw" the sign before because I didn't know what it was then.

"The Law is for the Protection of the People." Kris Kristofferson

it is in a county owned facility its not enforceable but there is no case law as of yet proving that, there have been many discussions about it, some think that a short term rental of the hall negates the fact the building is owned by the county though no where in any law does it say that. me I walk past them when I go and that is rarely as you don't save a dime on anything in there

MasterOfNone wrote:I think we need to compare prohibiting guns to other prohibitions. If I have a "No hoodies" sign at the entrance to my business, is it illegal to enter? If so, then 30.06 is no different. But if I have to tell the hoodie wearer to leave in order for him to be charged with trespass, then 30.06 would go beyond just allowing the owner to deny service.
I think Florida got this right. Signs alone do not create trespass; you must be told to leave before you can be trespassing simply for carrying.

you don't a LEO has to tell the person they are trespassing, you can tell them till your blue in the face and the DA won't even touch it and most LEO's won't do a thing, so the 2 are not in any way shape or form similar, the 30.05 has to be given by a LEO the 30.06 is an automatic arrest and jail sentence. I would like to see 30.06 go away and be replaced by nothing, nada. I do not believe that a business owner should have the right to disallow a person with a CHL, and no its not property owners rights most businesses don't own the property the rent it, no matter that the law does allow some things. to me a public business is just that PUBLIC. now for the no shoes no shirt no service and 30.06 the 3 no's don't carry automatic jail time and you can just call a cop to get me to leave