59 gun range

[LarryH]

I have never been to Sportsmans, I may drive up there tonight and see what goes on, I am alway's teaching the CHL and never get to shoot.

Hummph. For never getting to shoot, you've done a bang-up job the times I've watched you.

[G.C.Montgomery]

I have never been to Sportsmans, I may drive up there tonight and see what goes on, I am alway's teaching the CHL and never get to shoot.

Hummph. For never getting to shoot, you've done a bang-up job the times I've watched you.

I know exactly what ElGato is talking about...Not being able to teach at TopGun for 9 months has actually given me time to start shooting again. Tom, it was great seeing you at Sportsmans yesterday. Come on back...We'll be glad to have you! I haven't forgotten about the insulation info I mentioned. I've just got to dig up current contact info for the guy.


GM

[ElGato]

I really enjoyed my self GM, I will be back.

[big 54r]

I wish these ranges weren't so far away, I would like to try a cpl of them and also get some training like they do at shiloh on Tues. and Weds.
The Texas City range at least stay's open till 7:30 on Wed and Thurs when the time changes but there is no chance at any basic-intermediate-advanced training. I generally go up to Marksman in S. Houston when I get off work late though but again zero training opportunities.

Maybe when Bill James opens his range on 646 he will have a training program similar to the shiloh one and a cpl of the others I here board members talk about.
It would be prudent and make him some "chedda"!

[Carry-a-Kimber]

You are a little behind the times. Sportsman's finally reopened a few months ago and is once again one of the best indoor facilities in town. .

WOW, I am way behind the times. I haven't been anywhere other than Carters and private land to shoot in over a year. I am very glad to hear Sportsman's is back open. It used to be the closest range to me, but since I have moved to houston it isn't as convenient. I heard about the fire at TG but didn't realize they still haven't opened. Obviously you have had far more experience with them than I have, only been there a handful of times to shoot. I did notice the staff was a little on the...snob side. Thanks for the info.

[G.C.Montgomery]

You are a little behind the times. Sportsman's finally reopened a few months ago and is once again one of the best indoor facilities in town. .

WOW, I am way behind the times. I haven't been anywhere other than Carters and private land to shoot in over a year. I am very glad to hear Sportsman's is back open. It used to be the closest range to me, but since I have moved to houston it isn't as convenient. I heard about the fire at TG but didn't realize they still haven't opened. Obviously you have had far more experience with them than I have, only been there a handful of times to shoot. I did notice the staff was a little on the...snob side. Thanks for the info.

I believe TG officially reopened on March 20th. They swore for 9 months they wanted us back and to this day, they claim they don't blame us. However, I now believe they have lied to us the whole time. I've lost count of the number of random people who came up to our group while we were out and about thinking "we started the fire" even though Top Gun's general manager swears the neither he nor the owner have ever said such a thing. But they apparently forget we were there with the arson investigators and saw their reactions to the video. I taught CHL for them for two years and often stepped in to help if they were busy or thought they might have been targeted by suspicious individuals in the show room after I moved on. I also was there to confront vandals breaking into vehicles in the parking lot. After five years of shooting, helping and supporting their business, they threw us under the bus and appear to be feeling fat because they've finally gotten an insurance settlement for the loss of business.

Even if their insurance company refused to cover the losses of the long-time, loyal customers who lost guns and other gear that night, it seems to me that as business owners interested in keeping those loyal customers should have done something other than say, "Sorry, the insurance company said you are on your own and will have to file with your own insurance but we'll happily take more of your money when we reopen." And as much as I felt they were a lot like the parents of a good family when I was working for them, I've grown less and less trusting of the owner because she continues to stand by the GM. He must be making a lot of money for her and I guess that is all that matters now. I don't hold that against them because that's the sole purpose of a business. I understand and agree with the concept. However, it is also a service oriented business and if there is one thing they have had a problem with for several years, it is good customer service. Actually, they suck at customer service as mentioned in my previous post. I'm not sure why it takes having truly egregious employee behavior for them to finally address the issue with termination. Armed employees who don't know how to approach equally armed customers is asking for an indictable offense to occur on your property.

What has me really ticked off now is the latest accusation that members of our club have said we were glad the fire happened. I can't seem to find any indication that has ever happened but I'm certainly beginning to understand why someone might feel that way. I'll admit that I've said there was negligence and stupidity in the decision to put PE foam back in that range after when we knew it was a primary factor in the fire at Sportsmans. But given that my rear end was one of those that nearly got barbequed, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't say I'm glad the fire happened. I truly wish it hadn't because we might still be shooting there today. Then again, we had enough issues with staff and management that we probably would have eventually moved on anyway. After all, the GM once said to one of our members that the groups weren't profitable for him and that he didn't need us anyway. Tack that onto being lied to for all this time and I'm pretty much done with that place. I once loved working there, helping their customers and helping grow the "brotherhood of the spiral tube" through our group. But now, now I'm just hoping find a new place to spread the sunshine and give folks a better, nicer and more convenient place to shoot that doesn't have bottomfeeder instructors who know just enough about shooting and the law to be dangerous.

GM

[Muzzlebreak]

(snip)... After five years of shooting, helping and supporting their business, they threw us under the bus and appear to be feeling fat because they've finally gotten an insurance settlement for the loss of business.

If you'll remember, they never missed an opportunity to dump on us so it was a pretty rocky five years. They denied our beginners class on numerous occasions with no advanced notice. They shut down the Tuesday group when their business picked up but when things slacked off again they were eager to get us back.

As far as I'm concerned, good riddance to them.

[JAguirre]

G. C. Montgomery, Muzzlebreak, sorry to hear about your negative experiences there. I have no ulterior motive whatsoever in saying that when I was there last Friday, the staff was very friendly and helpful. I dont know who the owner nor the managers are, but everyone that I spoke with was extremely attentive and helpful. Maybe I was there on a good day? I actually posted a new thread about the range before I started reading this thread.

[gunovice]

The Top Gun Web page now has the following information. Anyone know about these groups and John Boyert?

Jim

Shooting Group I - Tuesday
6:00 to 8:00 PM
Close Quarters Defense Group I is a basic group for those who would like to practice shooting in a more realistic and safe manner that reflects real-life situations. You must have basic understanding of safe firearms handling and fundamentals. You must also possess the ability to draw your firearm from a holster.

Shooting Group II - Thursday
6:00 to 8:00 PM
Close Quarters Defense Group II is for the more advanced shooter who has the ability to shoot more advanced drills.

These classes will be conducted by John Boyert of Athena Professional Training Solutions. If you have questions of your ability and what group you should join, contact John at 832-603-2386.

[G.C.Montgomery]

The Top Gun Web page now has the following information. Anyone know about these groups and John Boyert?

Jim

Shooting Group I - Tuesday
6:00 to 8:00 PM
Close Quarters Defense Group I is a basic group for those who would like to practice shooting in a more realistic and safe manner that reflects real-life situations. You must have basic understanding of safe firearms handling and fundamentals. You must also possess the ability to draw your firearm from a holster.

Shooting Group II - Thursday
6:00 to 8:00 PM
Close Quarters Defense Group II is for the more advanced shooter who has the ability to shoot more advanced drills.

These classes will be conducted by John Boyert of Athena Professional Training Solutions. If you have questions of your ability and what group you should join, contact John at 832-603-2386.

Here's what I know so far..Boyert is a US Army vet and his LinkedIn page (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-boyert/16/24A/885" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) says he spent his entire 12 year career in 3rd Ranger Battalion. I’ve got no reason to doubt that but, my old boss was in the same unit through 1999 and I’ve simply never gotten around to asking if he happened to know Boyert and could tell me anything about him. What I do know is that Boyert received some defensive pistol and S.P.E.A.R. (http://www.tonyblauer.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) type training from a local HPD SWAT officer with whom I have a loose acquaintance. Unfortunately, I can't tell you much more about him than that.

I don’t want anyone to think I look down on a vet. That's not the case and he certainly deserves thanks for his service. That said, there are real veterans on this forum who can tell you that some of the greatest/smartest fighters the world has ever seen, did everything right and they are still dead because it was just their turn to die. At the other end of the scale are a bunch of guys who showed up, survived by nothing other than dumb luck, and have medals to indicate “they were there.” They have some skills that make them useful in their particular MOS but, that skill set may or may not translate well or at all outside a very specific set of circumstances. What my old boss will tell you is that in the three or four years he and I shot together, he probably learned more from me about defensive and competitive shooting with rifle and pistols as an amateur than I learned from him about team/squad tactics or working as part of a larger element. The point lurking here is that I can’t tell you anything about Boyert that qualifies him to teach people how to tie their shoes let alone offer defensive shooting lessons.

A couple of my former Tuesday/Thursday shooters watched Boyert on his first night for “advanced” shooters, a Thursday. My guys aren’t especially advanced shooters or competitors…One is an oil executive for a local well operator and the other manages a building services firm. Only one paying student showed up that night and Boyert told my guys he was planning to do some “really advanced work” that night. The short version is my guys were not impressed. I was willing to at least go see what this guy had to offer but, at this point, I’m not sure it’s worth my time and I am especially unwilling to give any money to people I consider wholly dishonest. Chances are high that at some point, they’ll get sideways with this guy as they have every other competent instructor who has ever worked there but my bigger concern is that he just might be one of these guys who knows just enough to get someone killed. If I get a chance to see him work away from Top Gun, I'll be able offer a more informed opinion. But what I know so far does not impress me.

[G.C.Montgomery]

G. C. Montgomery, Muzzlebreak, sorry to hear about your negative experiences there. I have no ulterior motive whatsoever in saying that when I was there last Friday, the staff was very friendly and helpful. I dont know who the owner nor the managers are, but everyone that I spoke with was extremely attentive and helpful. Maybe I was there on a good day? I actually posted a new thread about the range before I started reading this thread.

No need to appologize for someone else's issues. I always thought the Johnsons were good people. And I still want to believe that. It's the GM that I am convinced is the most worthless slimeball to have ever come out of a pond. But I once thought he was a good guy too. I would argue you were there on a good day. In fact, the best days are often the early days of a retail establishment. And right now, Top Gun is largely an all new range because it was gutted after the fire. Give it a few months and go in when they are short handed on staff and long on customers...See if anything changes. Don't just observe your own experience...See how they treat others because it might surprise you.

Having worked in retail at several times in my life, I can tell you that when a business is newly opened or re-opened, they are VERY attentive and helpful because they know they've got to build the business through word of mouth until they have the cash flow to cover real advertising. That's just the way it is. What makes a business special is the ability to keep being attentive to their customers needs and showing a signficant appreciation for repeat customers. That doesn't mean cutting people deals that aren't profitable for the business. But it might mean that if you've got a solid group of as many as 50 regular customers who come in every week, rain or shine, pay you $15 to $20 each for range fees plus ammo and bring you several hundred thousand dollars in revenue over the the course of a couple years, that you make sure you keep those guys happy. That can be as simple as making sure they get the lanes they've reserved at the appointed times on the appointed days.

Top Gun succeeds primarily because it is one of those rare business fortunate enough to have customers who are very, very, willing to part with their money. How many places do you know of that can get away with overcharging a customer's credit card by $18,000, fail to catch it for at least three full months, and have the same guy come back to you only to do nearly $25,000 in business within a week of crediting his card back? Of course, they managed to tick that particular customer off too. So now he shoots at and buys his guns through Memorial Shooting Centers even though he lives less than four miles from Top Gun and has to drive past Top Gun to get to the other range.