A little Quail Creek love

[Diax]

The reason he had a problem with it was because he could not make sure I didnt load FMJ rounds into it.
(It wasnt in the rifle)

I actually held it up for him to see the rounds were HPs as I knew he would ask to look... Thats when he said "Next time, dont pre-load"

Wasnt that big of a deal, and he wasnt rude.

[cyphur]

I've shot at QC from time to time over the years, both rifle and pistol, never had an issue out there. I've even discussed shooting prone at the rifle range with the range guys on a busy Saturday and they had no issues with it.

With that said, it tends to be quite busy on weekends and will probably start shooting during the week if their schedule stays permissive. I would also like to see them set up a range beyond 100 yards, but such is life. No good long distance ranges within an hour of my house which makes for a long day in the summer heat if I do want to shoot at distance.

[BassMan!]

I got yelled at the other day. I had to find out what their definition of rapid fire was. Lol. I had a good time and will be a repeat customer. A man has got to know his limitations.

[QCRangeMaster]

The issue with pre-loaded magazines is that our insurance prohibits FMJ ammunition being used on our range. Using FMJs opens the entire range to liability that could cause the range to close down permenently. FMJ center fire RIFLE ammo only, not pistol ammo, is prohibited from even being present on the range. Any time the RSOs find it they instruct the shooter to return it to their vehicle prior to shooting. We NEVER confiscate or take possession of anyone's personal property (ammo) even when asked to do so by the shooter themselves! NEVER! Since a few shooters believe that by loading a couple of SP or HP ammo on top of a stack of FMJ will fool the RSOs, we have to check everyone's magazines. There are no less than four signs between where you pay your range fee and the shooting range stating that FMJ, tracers, etc. are not allowed. We have hundreds if not thousands of shooters that come to the range and follow the rules and they are not bothered one bit by the RSOs asking to see their ammunition. The range store maintains a stock of the most common calibers of rifle ammunition so people can get what they need if they should have prohibited ammunition after they arrive. If shooters elect not to purchase ammo from our store, that they can ether get a full refund or go somewhere else and buy ammo then return to shoot. The range fee is good for the whole day. We do not mind you leaving and returning.

In closing I would like to say "If you haven't been to Quail Creek in the last two years, you haven't been to Quail Creek"! The range is nothing like it used to be! While I can do nothing to correct something that may have happened five or ten years ago, the owners (and I) are determined to provide a safe, enjoyable place for people to shoot. The fact that whole families come out and spend an enjoyable day with us tells me that we are succeeding. If there are any issues please see me and I will address them.
QCRM

[The Annoyed Man]

The issue with pre-loaded magazines is that our insurance prohibits FMJ ammunition being used on our range. Using FMJs opens the entire range to liability that could cause the range to close down permenently. FMJ center fire RIFLE ammo only, not pistol ammo, is prohibited from even being present on the range. Any time the RSOs find it they instruct the shooter to return it to their vehicle prior to shooting. We NEVER confiscate or take possession of anyone's personal property (ammo) even when asked to do so by the shooter themselves! NEVER! Since a few shooters believe that by loading a couple of SP or HP ammo on top of a stack of FMJ will fool the RSOs, we have to check everyone's magazines. There are no less than four signs between where you pay your range fee and the shooting range stating that FMJ, tracers, etc. are not allowed. We have hundreds if not thousands of shooters that come to the range and follow the rules and they are not bothered one bit by the RSOs asking to see their ammunition. The range store maintains a stock of the most common calibers of rifle ammunition so people can get what they need if they should have prohibited ammunition after they arrive. If shooters elect not to purchase ammo from our store, that they can ether get a full refund or go somewhere else and buy ammo then return to shoot. The range fee is good for the whole day. We do not mind you leaving and returning.

In closing I would like to say "If you haven't been to Quail Creek in the last two years, you haven't been to Quail Creek"! The range is nothing like it used to be! While I can do nothing to correct something that may have happened five or ten years ago, the owners (and I) are determined to provide a safe, enjoyable place for people to shoot. The fact that whole families come out and spend an enjoyable day with us tells me that we are succeeding. If there are any issues please see me and I will address them.
QCRM

One of your RSOs literally snatched 2 unopened boxes out of my hands before I could even take them to my car. They were in my hands because I had removed them from a range bag.

[QCRangeMaster]

Sir,
Who was it that did that? What did he look like? When did it happen? What did he do with them if he "snatched" them from you? If he returned them to you then I'm hoping he thought you had them out for him to inspect. Many shooters do just that. Was the ammo in question FMJs and if so, why were they on the range where they are clearly prohibited or was it in the parking lot south of the footbridge? You were not specific. If you were on the range when this happened and the ammo in question was FMJs, did you misread or misunderstand the signs that you must have passed to get on the shooting part of the range? I need to know more information so that I can check into the issue. None of our current RSOs would do such a thing because they have been instructed otherwise so I'm guessing this happened a long time ago before my tenure as Range Master. Please be more specific in your post so that if the problem does still exists, I can address it with that individual RSO. If the employee is already gone from QCSR (and many are) then the issue should be considered a moot point. I will however use your post to remind the present RSOs of this issue.
I understand that you do not care to patronize our range because of things that have happened there in the past and that is fine. However if you find yourself in the area on any Thursday through Sunday, I would welcome a personal visit so that I can discuss these issues with you face to face. No forums. No one sided posts without any chance of dialogue or conversation. That is the only way I can address such issues and prevent them occurring again.

Although a work in progress, Quail Creek is a place changed for the better. I have been a customer there since 1995 and I too was put off by the treatment I got there in the past. That is why I will not tolerate ill treatment of our customers now that I find myself in a position to do something about it. Those rude employees are gone now and we are working to train all of the new ones what is expected of them in dealing with the public. If you won't give us a chance to prove ourselves by visiting us (me) again, then please, at least stop beating a dead horse and let others decide for themselves.
QCRM

[The Annoyed Man]

QCRangeMaster, I have no doubt that you are trying to remake QC (deliberate double entendre) into something better, but some things leave such a bad taste in your mouth that it will take specific assurances to get me to go back there.

Here is a description of the two incidents, both in 2008 (I think...it's been a while....but my son was still in high school and he graduated in 2008) that caused me to vow that I would not only never return to QC, but that I would warn others about it:

1. My son and I took a friend of his from school there to teach him how to shoot a centerfire rifle. I brought along three bolt rifles in .308, and I had a range bag that contained an assortment of different loads of ammo—including the offending FMJs. I had overheard a conversation—possibly between the RO and a customer, or maybe between two customers, I wasn't really paying attention to who was talking—about FMJ not being permitted on the range (I confess that I had not noticed the sign on the wall in the office). I thought "Hmmmmm, I better find out if this ammo is acceptable or not," and I picked up the boxes of FMJ out of my range bag, which was on the ground, and started to turn toward the RO to ask him, when he came rushing up to me like nothing so much as a Marine DI, got all up in my face with his voice raised at me, snatched the boxes of ammo out of my hands, and marched off to his Mule which was parked 10 yards or so behind the firing benches, tossing my ammo boxes in the back of the Mule.
   
   I stood there in shock. I never had a chance to get a word in edgewise. I am a grown man, and was—at the time—in my mid-50s. I've never been spoken to that way by another adult who wasn't either drunk or crazy or both...........or a democrat.......and he did this to me in front of my then teenaged son and his friend. That is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE!!! You should NEVER cut a man's legs out from under him in front of his son or daughter. NEVER. Your man is a complete jackass. I kind of stood there in shock for a minute, not knowing what I should do. I was afraid to talk to the guy because I thought he might punch me out or eject me from the range. THAT's how offensive his behavior was. Sir, enough people on this forum know me personally, face to face, to affirm that I am neither a violent nor hard to get along with person. I am about the most easy going guy you'll ever meet. Finally, I screwed up my courage enough to approach him and ask if I could remove the offending ammo from the back of his Mule and put it in my car. By then, whatever binge he was on had calmed down, and he allowed me to do that. I took the ammo back to my car and put it away, then I went in the range office and bought two more boxes of vastly overpriced ammo so my son's friend could shoot. Then I went back to the shooting tables and began to shoot.
2. The second incident was in the same year, 2008, and involved a different RO. Here's what happened.... I came to the range with a heavy barreled Remington 700 in .308 cased up in a heavy SKS double rifle case on about a 98º day. I always transport the rifle with the bolt removed. I approached the firing line to ask what lane I should take, and the RO indicated an open lane and told me to use that one. I approached the shooting table for that lane, heaved the heavy rifle case up onto the tabletop and—momentarily—set the rifle case down crosswise on the table. before I could reorient the case to point down range and open it, the RO rushed up to me and started chewing me out.....again, like I was some kind of newbie recruit at the rifle range for the first time in boot camp. I have some choice words for the character of your ROs, but forum rules prevent me from using such language here. He made me pick up the rifle case, told me to follow him, and marched me out into that open unshaded dirt patch about 10 yards or so behind the firing line. He told me to set my rifle case on the ground, out there in the hot sun, inline with downrange, and take the rifle out of it there and walk it forward to the firing line. HERE'S HOW STUPID YOUR MAN IS: NOW my rifle is pointed at the unprotected backs of the other shooters, and until he can see that I already have the bolt removed from the action, HE HAS NO CLUE IF IT'S EVEN LOADED OR NOT!!!! What an idiot. To add insult to injury, he would not allow me to subsequently bring my now empty rifle case forward and set it in the shade. I had to leave it laying out there in the hot sun for the 2 hours or so that I was there to shoot. I live in Grapevine, right on the border with Colleyville and Euless, and your range is far enough away that I'm not going to just up and leave after I've already made the drive out there. But when I left there that day, I was SO disgusted with the quality of your employees and the way the range was run that I vowed that I would NEVER come back. Only a fool would return to face that kind of abuse for a third time, and I am no fool.

Now, I have no idea of the names of either of the brainless idiots who treated me like that. I can tell you that they both appeared to be roughly my own age, which at the time was mid-50s. I can tell you that the first guy was about my height—5'10"—was a bit overweight but not morbidly obese, and the the second guy was quite a bit taller than me. Both had a "scruffy" appearance. The first guy wore glasses for sure, and the second guy maybe wore glasses, but I could be wrong about that one. As I recall, I think he had longish hair. But one thing is for sure: they are an ill-tempered lot, and they feel free to dispense abuse to paying customers. And obviously, mine are not the only horror stories, or you would not be posting here to try and repair the damage those two retards have done to your range's reputation.

You want your range to regain its reputation? Here are my suggestions:

1. Put the range under new ownership. Whomever was blind enough to allow these two idiots to be the face of your business, in the face of all the complaints online about their rudeness, is out of touch incompetent to run that business.
2. Barring number 1, fire anybody who was employed there in 2008. Mine is far from the only bad experience they produced. THEY are the ones killing your business, not the permanently irritated-off ex-customers they drove away. I don't care if they're NRA certified or not, they're not qualified to deal with the public.
3. Tell your remaining employees that public humiliation in front of a man's children is NOT acceptable under ANY circumstances. I am not the only one on this forum who had that particular experience at your range. Your range, your rules, but remember that I am a PAYING customer, and nobody in their right mind will pay for public humiliation in front of his kids.
4. REQUIRE them to attend a CHL class just for the conflict resolution part. In both of my experiences, your boys took a situation that could have been easily resolved with a few quiet words, and escalated it into a confrontation with an armed man (me) whom they had no idea was armed. That's just plain DUMB.
5. INSIST on professionalism from your crew. I shoot frequently at Elm Fork....in fact I was just there on Sunday. I have had an RO there step up to me and quietly confirm that my firearm was unloaded and safed, or to remind me to stay behind the red line during cease-fires, etc. And you know what? I appreciate the direction, because I am fully aware that I am not a perfect human being. If another pair of eyes makes my shooting experience safer, I'm for it. The thing that marks them, generally speaking, is outstanding professionalism and customer service. You want to know the results of that? I now have very cordial relationships with the people there. I kid around with them. We get along. I respect their authority. THEY EARNED MY RESPECT. Those two neanderthals who abused my better nature have earned my permanent disregard.
6. EDUCATE them about the law. I recall at least one member here who asked one of your ROs if he could discreetly unholster his concealed pistol on the handgun range so that he could shoot with it. He got screamed at about how it was allegedly against the law for him to have a concealed weapon at a shooting range (false).
7. FMJ ammunition: You seriously need to take steps to accommodate FMJ rifle ammo. Elm Fork is a good model of how to do that. If you haven't already, you should go on over there and see what they've done with their 50 yard range. As you must well know, the AR15 platform is the single highest selling rifle platform in the nation. AKs are also selling like hotcakes, as are all other AR/AK variants. You need to serve that market, and people are NOT going to go buy expensive hunting ammo to zero a carbine they are going to use for a Something Arises gun. Elm Fork's 50 yard range is on a poured concrete slab, has overhead baffles to keep the shots low, and the target frames are backed by a tall, framed-in earthen berm. You can choose to shoot at either 25 or 50 yards, and they require the targets at the 50 yard to be mounted even with the bottom edge of the hanging cardboard backer so that all rounds will impact lower in the berm. Is it a major expense to build a feature like this? Yes it is, but it is ALSO an investment in the long term future your range, because this particular market segment is only going to grow larger, not smaller. If you don't serve it, those shooters are not going to give up shooting. They're going to take their shooting business to the facility that can serve all of their shooting needs. I understand why you cannot accept FMJ on the 100 yard rifle line, and Elm Fork doesn't accept it on their 100 yard line for the same reason. But they have made the intelligent (and profitable) decision to accommodate this market, and it is paying off for them.

[RoyGBiv]

[*]FMJ ammunition: You seriously need to take steps to accommodate FMJ rifle ammo. Elm Fork is a good model of how to do that. If you haven't already, you should go on over there and see what they've done with their 50 yard range. As you must well know, the AR15 platform is the single highest selling rifle platform in the nation. AKs are also selling like hotcakes, as are all other AR/AK variants. You need to serve that market, and people are NOT going to go buy expensive hunting ammo to zero a carbine they are going to use for a Something Arises gun. Elm Fork's 50 yard range is on a poured concrete slab, has overhead baffles to keep the shots low, and the target frames are backed by a tall, framed-in earthen berm. You can choose to shoot at either 25 or 50 yards, and they require the targets at the 50 yard to be mounted even with the bottom edge of the hanging cardboard backer so that all rounds will impact lower in the berm. Is it a major expense to build a feature like this? Yes it is, but it is ALSO an investment in the long term future your range, because this particular market segment is only going to grow larger, not smaller. If you don't serve it, those shooters are not going to give up shooting. They're going to take their shooting business to the facility that can serve all of their shooting needs. I understand why you cannot accept FMJ on the 100 yard rifle line, and Elm Fork doesn't accept it on their 100 yard line for the same reason. But they have made the intelligent (and profitable) decision to accommodate this market, and it is paying off for them.[/list]

I'll chime in a bit here too...

I would shoot at QC pretty regularly in 2009-2010. On several occasions I witnessed RO's literally yelling at other shooters for what I would consider etiquette violations. Yes, if unchecked these things could lead to accidents, but at the time my impression was that these "offenses" could have been handled with far more diplomacy and achieved a more effective result.

The last time I was at QC (November 2010, I believe) I was the ONLY shooter on the pistol range on a cold morning. The two RO's were chatting together down at the end of the rifle range. I tried to flag them down to let them know I was going to change a target, and finally just decided to change the target, since I couldn't get their attention and I was still the only shooter. I got yelled at for 5 minutes. I get it... I broke a rule. Don't make me walk down and interrupt your chatting and I won't have to waste your time to yell at me. Clearly a customer service issue. I stopped shooting at QC after that.

Fast forward to last Friday. I'm a member at ShootSmart. As much as I prefer shooting outside, ShootSmart has automatic target handling systems (no waiting for a cold range or "step away from the firing line and show me your slide locked open" to change a target) and RO's that are both professional and friendly. I have a new AR that I wanted to sight in, and at 15 yards ShootSmart is at a disadvantage when it comes to working with rifles. After reading some good things in this thread, I decided I'd give QC another try. I showed up at the range, paid my fee and starting toting my stuff to the line. I saw the "No FMJ" signs and was immediately deflated. Sure enough, the Federal FMJ's I bought at WalMart for $4.79/box-20 were not allowed. The range store had an identical box ("identical" looking box, same weight loads, but not FMJ) of Federal's, for $11.99/box-20. I went to ShootSmart, calculated the offset and sighted in at 15 yards using my FMJ's. At least your RO was friendly about checking my ammo and your guy in the store was friendly enough about returning my range fee (I got the impression the refund was given a bit reluctantly, as he initially offered me a voucher for a return date. I had to press him for a cash refund).

One other observation....
When you replied to TAM's note, your tone, IMO, was very accusatory. Almost demanding to know who the offending RO was and somewhat incredulous that such an accusation could still be made, given the changes at the range. Honestly, while I felt your written reply indicated a sincere interest in finding out the details to TAM's problem, the tone of what you wrote reflected, IN MY OPINION, the same over-the-top tone that I saw your RO's take with customers (including me) on some of my visits to your range. Just my observation. I could certainly be wrong about your intended tone.

Personally, I would like to see QC be successful. I would much prefer to shoot outside and I'm willing to travel the extra distance to shoot with you, but... I'm still hesitant. And not being able to shoot rifle FMJ's (and not having more reasonably priced approved ammo on hand) took away an opportunity for you to win back a former client last week.

Thanks for your participation here. I believe you'll find folks here very open to listening and sharing opinions in a positive, constructive way. I think we ALL want you to be successful, but we (a forum of responsible CHL holders) have expectations as customers that, it seems, QC is not yet meeting.

Best Regards
RGB

[QCRangeMaster]

Annoyed man
I hope you understand that I am not trying to change your mind about you patronizing QCSR. I obviously cannot do that. I understand that you will not come back. However, in answering your complaint. Thank you for being more specific in your description of the incidents in question. As I thought they occurred quite some time ago and both of the employees are no longer employed at QCSR. In fact I only know of one employee who possibly was working at the range in 2008 and he is not an RSO. That should lay this issue to rest.
As far as the “ reputation suggestions” you mentioned,
1. Put the range under new ownership.
The range is private property and owned by private individuals. I can only assure you that the present owners are trying to “move Quail Creek forward” and provide a safe pleasant place to shoot. I believe in them and support them.
2. Fire anybody employed in 2008.
We don’t need to “fire anybody” because they are already gone. All of our current RSO are NRA certified RSOs.
3. Tell employees not to humiliate customers.
This is being done at this time. Our employees are reminded that they are expected to act in a professional manner when dealing with the public. One note: As you stated, you are a paying customer and we realize that fact, however some customers (not necessarily you) believe that by paying a range fee they “own” the range and the RSOs should not confront them. This will never be the case. Just like at any other shooting facility, customers must abide by QCSR rules or expect to be confronted by the RSOs.
4. Require RSOs to attend a CHL class.
All QCSR RSOs are Texas CHL holders in good standing and are trained in conflict resolution.
5. Insist in professionalism.
This is already being done. However, I will make the drive to Elm Fork and observe the RSOs there. If anything can be gained from the experience I will take steps to make it happen.
6. Educate the RSOs about the law.
The issue you mentioned was apparently quite some time ago also so I needn’t discuss it further. We welcome concealed carry patrons. Almost daily I allow CHL holders to un-holster their firearm and fire from the shooting bench then re-holster when they leave. We simply require that “concealed means concealed” while on the range. While we cannot allow drawing and firing, we only say anything if someone is open carrying their firearm or drawing to fire. Only Police officers are allowed to open carry with a clearly visible badge. Police officers are only allowed to draw and fire on the police range.
7. Allow FMJ ammunition.
This cannot be changed at this time. Perhaps you are uninformed of the current requirements of our insurance provider to allow FMJ ammunition on an outdoor range. These requirements have nothing to do with the berm or how the targets hang. Our insurance prohibits FMJ ammunition. End of argument. I cannot comment on what Elm Fork does with its ranges.

[QCRangeMaster]

RoyGBiv,
I will try to address the issued you mentioned. As RSOs we are trained to be loud so that we can be heard in spite of customers hearing protection. While I am known for being very loud on the range, I do not shout because I am angry or trying to berate anyone. On occasion customers wear both ear plugs and muffs and cannot hear any of the range commands so we have to raise our voices to be heard. This may be taken as “being mean” by bystanders, but we have to communicate when someone is in violation of a safety rule. While stepping up to the bench during a cease fire may not seem like much of an infraction, I have had a customer pick up a 1911, slip in a magazine, and rack the slide all with other customers posting targets seven yards in front of him! This only took about two or three seconds! We have to react quickly and decisively or someone could be injured or killed. I am in complete agreement with you that not all infractions are quite as eminently dangerous as the one I mentioned, but almost all require immediate attention by the RSO. I am working to resolve which is which with our RSOs. However, we do, and always will, lean toward safety!
If, as you mentioned, our RSOs were inattentive and missed the fact that you were needing to put up a target when you were the only shooter at the range at the time, I apologize. However, all of our ranges go hot or cold at the same time and there may have been someone you didn’t see shooting at the other ranges during this time. We time our cease fires and it may have not been time for one yet. I’m sorry but just because you are the only shooter on the pistol range, does not mean you may violate the hot range rule. Sorry. If they went overboard in telling you about that, well I will talk to them about that as well as ask them to be more attentive.
As for the price of our ammunition, we do not have much of a markup at all and sell it for nearly what we pay for it. We cannot compete with giants like Wal-Mart or Cabelas and we do not try. We stock ammo for customer’s convenience should they need it. If you would like you can always leave and run to one of the large stores and return to shoot. Your range fee is for all day.
I do not work in the store and that department is under a different person so there is nothing I can do about what happens inside there. I hope the voucher offer was well intended because that is standard procedure when there is a conflict. They offer a “rain check”. For most people that seems to work for them. I’m glad you got your refund.
About the other man’s post, I did press for details and I was not trying to be obnoxious or accusatory. If I came across that way I apologize. I did so because I was almost sure this incident happened quite some time ago and I was correct. He provided the details and I was able to provide him an answer to his post. I had mentioned that things were changing at QCSR and while he may have meant well bringing up that issue in his post, it happened in 2008. There is nothing I can do about it at this time. I was not an employee of QCSR back then so I will not apologize for something like that now. There is only one employee at QCSR now that may have been working there in 2008 and he is not an RSO. All the others are gone.
Please do not be hesitant to come back out. Buy yourself some cheap HPs or SP at Wally world and come on back. Should you decide to come back out to the range please look me up (my vest is orange) and let me know who you are. I would like to hear your side of any confrontation and discuss the issues with you face to face. I believe conversation works best. Also a simple explanation of how and why we do things like we do may help smooth any ruffled feathers. That is the only way I can resolve things. That is my goal. I understand and support my co-workers because they have an extremely dangerous, difficult and frustrating job, but I also want fairness for all involved. None of us are perfect, but we are striving to be the best we can. As I said, a work in progress.

[The Annoyed Man]

Annoyed man
I hope you understand that I am not trying to change your mind about you patronizing QCSR. I obviously cannot do that. I understand that you will not come back. However, in answering your complaint. Thank you for being more specific in your description of the incidents in question. As I thought they occurred quite some time ago and both of the employees are no longer employed at QCSR. In fact I only know of one employee who possibly was working at the range in 2008 and he is not an RSO. That should lay this issue to rest.
As far as the “ reputation suggestions” you mentioned,
1. Put the range under new ownership.
The range is private property and owned by private individuals. I can only assure you that the present owners are trying to “move Quail Creek forward” and provide a safe pleasant place to shoot. I believe in them and support them. QRM, I do get it that it is private property. I just didn't know if the same owners who owned it back then still own it today. As I recall, it was an old man. He may have just been tired of being in business. All I know was that he did not have effective control over his employees, and those employees were killing his business. I am self-employed, so I am acutely sensitive to what bad employees can do to a small business. A shooting range may be a place for enthusiasts to hang out, but at the end of the day, it is still a business. QC was badly run. I'll take your word for it that it has improved.
2. Fire anybody employed in 2008.
We don’t need to “fire anybody” because they are already gone. All of our current RSO are NRA certified RSOs. Glad to hear it.
3. Tell employees not to humiliate customers.
This is being done at this time. Our employees are reminded that they are expected to act in a professional manner when dealing with the public. One note: As you stated, you are a paying customer and we realize that fact, however some customers (not necessarily you) believe that by paying a range fee they “own” the range and the RSOs should not confront them. This will never be the case. Just like at any other shooting facility, customers must abide by QCSR rules or expect to be confronted by the RSOs. Good. And for the record, I never once challenged your rules or the RSOs. There is no percentage in challenging the authority of an RSO, even if he is very much in the wrong. So I get that part too.....and that is why the whole experience was so shocking to me.
4. Require RSOs to attend a CHL class.
All QCSR RSOs are Texas CHL holders in good standing and are trained in conflict resolution. Good.
5. Insist in professionalism.
This is already being done. However, I will make the drive to Elm Fork and observe the RSOs there. If anything can be gained from the experience I will take steps to make it happen.
6. Educate the RSOs about the law.
The issue you mentioned was apparently quite some time ago also so I needn’t discuss it further. We welcome concealed carry patrons. Almost daily I allow CHL holders to un-holster their firearm and fire from the shooting bench then re-holster when they leave. We simply require that “concealed means concealed” while on the range. While we cannot allow drawing and firing, we only say anything if someone is open carrying their firearm or drawing to fire. Only Police officers are allowed to open carry with a clearly visible badge. Police officers are only allowed to draw and fire on the police range.
7. Allow FMJ ammunition.
This cannot be changed at this time. Perhaps you are uninformed of the current requirements of our insurance provider to allow FMJ ammunition on an outdoor range. These requirements have nothing to do with the berm or how the targets hang. Our insurance prohibits FMJ ammunition. End of argument. I cannot comment on what Elm Fork does with its ranges. I understand about the insurance, and I suspected as much. But that said, one can either change carriers, or one can try and get the current carrier's blessings on a project like Elm Fork's if it is properly presented. Either way, you are the customer, and you have some pull with your carrier. If your current carrier will not even entertain the possibility of restructuring part of your coverage at the end of your coverage year, PLEASE contact me. I can think of at least 2 or 3 providers of property and casualty insurance who would be more than happy to try and address your needs. NOTHING is written in stone. If your carrier thinks that it is, then they lack the flexibility to do a good job for you, and you can and should change carriers.

[olafpfj]

Well since I started this thread and it was meant to give you guys some love I will try to make it out there in the next week or so and give a report. I have been shooting there off and on since I moved to Texas in the summer of 2010. I have shot there maybe a dozen times or so. I have always had a great time and never been the subject of, nor witnessed, any issues. I have burned through all my FMJ and am starting to load SP's for all my Milsurp rifles now so I'll be back when I get a moment off from work.

Does anyone know if I can shoot black powder there? I'd love to shoot my 50cal Hawken at 100yds.

[QCRangeMaster]

Annoyed man,
So noted. I will mention your suggestion about the insurance to the owner. Beyond that I cannot say. Thank you for your suggestions.
QCRM

[QCRangeMaster]

olafpfj,
I shoot my .50 Hawken at QCSR quite often. We welcome black powder shooters. However, Texas State law requires that we keep all rounds on our property so we do not take chances with high or low shots. Our requirement is that you must at least hit the target board. If you can do that at 100 yards you will be fine. If you have not shot the rifle at 100 yards before, the RSO may ask you to start off at the 50 yard just to be sure where the rifle shoots. Should you skip rounds or hit high on the berm at 100 yards, you will be asked to move to a shorter distance (50 yds).
QCRM
P.S. If it happens to be Thursday through Sunday please look me up (orange vest). I would like to see your Hawken. I am new to black powder and could use some tips!