TX: Sutherland Springs church 26 dead 20 injured in mass shooting

[Jose_in_Dallas]

There is no requirement that 30.06 be posted at every entrance (that nuance only applies to 30.07, unfortunately). It simply must be conspicuously posted. If you have seen the sign, then you have been effectively notified.

Thanks for the clarification.

[The Annoyed Man]

This is not to distract from what happened at that church this morning, but to expand on it. We had a speaker at our church today, someone whose work means that there were a several very serious looking plain-clothed guys in suits and “mil-spec” haircuts, with ear buds observing the crowd for possible trouble. The speaker was David Eubanks, former commander of the 2nd Ranger Battalion, and then a Special Forces officer, who is a Christian missionary in his “retirement” (he’s still only about 56-57 years old). He is the founder of the Free Burma Rangers, and more recently has been involved in rendering humanitarian relief while actually under fire in places like Mosul and Kurdish Iraq. There’s a YouTube video that has been seen a lot - part of a film that is under production - where Eubanks is seen rescuing a little girl while under machinegun fire. The Los Angeles Times has an article HERE about their work. His wife and kids are almost more amazing than he is, and his eldest is a 17 year old teenaged girl. All his kids have ever known is this life of living in or near war zones, ministering to the desperate and needy. And it’s not just his family. Part of his team in Iraq are some of his original Free Burma Rangers - Asians who would have never considered undertaking extremely risky and dangerous missionary work in a Middle Eastern country, if not for someone being willing to risk everything, his life, even his family’s safety (with their complete and involved consent) in order to share the gospel with them.

https://youtu.be/7cVDJtoVL-c

The point of all this is that in some of the most dangerous parts of the world, there are brave and selfless people bringing the heart and meaning of “church” to places where it would not otherwise be found. And yet here, right in the heart of the “Bible Belt”, a part of the country where people probably feel the safest when going to church, where the risks associated with being a Christian are lower than anywhere else on the planet, a single person motivated by some kind of insane hatred manages in a few minutes to slaughter half of a congregation, and wounded the rest. We live in a world where great evil is no longer confined to places like Burma and Mosul, Iraq. And it is compounded when the reaction of our political leaders is to try and keep the innocent from being able to defend themselves.

It’s disgusting, isn’t it?

[CoffeeNut]

Given the type of separation from the military, wouldn't it be illegal for him to own a gun?

If he was actually convicted at the Court Martial, which it sounds like he was, then I do believe it is illegal. A court martial conviction is the same as a felony conviction.

it's more complicated than just courts martial...
Better description here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php ... post670726

There are 3 levels; summary, special, and general. Summary is analogous to misdemeanor, special can be analogous to either, general is analogous to a felony. The likeness is based on what crimes are generally heard in each court, and the possible length of imprisonment for each charge under the UCMJ (federal criminal code, and most states, regard anything with possible confinement over 1 year as a felony).

However, they aren't actually a felony as they're a strictly military charge, not a criminal charge in a civilian court: the UCMJ does not make a distinction, definition, or any mention of misdemeanor or felony.

Thank you for the information!

It does look like he got quite a while in confinement but since the discharge status appears to be changing from a Dishonorable to a BCD I will wait for the rest of his history to come to light.

[Deitz83]

This is horrible. I can tell you this that every Catholic Church in the Fort Worth and Dallas Diocese is posted 30.06 and 30.07. I haven’t seen every one but the ones I have seen are. It is my understanding that this was a directive from the Dallas and Fort Worth Bishops.

This is horrible. I can tell you this that every Catholic Church in the Fort Worth and Dallas Diocese is posted 30.06 and 30.07. I haven’t seen every one but the ones I have seen are. It is my understanding that this was a directive from the Dallas and Fort Worth Bishops.

If I were a Catholic I'd carry anyway.

Sorry if I'm going off topic here and please let me know if I should post this elsewhere. I attend a Catholic church in the DFW Area and had a question regarding the posting of the 30.06 and 30.07 signs. The main entrance to the church does not have any signage while one side door has a 30.07 and one of the others (on the opposite side of the church) has a 30.06. Even though I know of the 30.06 sign, I've always gone through the entrance that has the 30.07 sign.

My question is am I violating anything by knowing about the 30.06 sign by entering in the entrance with the 30.07 sign? I have always carried concealed while at church but have always been concerned about brushing against someone and having them "feel" my carrying. It's my understanding that the signs have to be both posted on all entrances for it to be "legal".

Back on topic. I've always gotten into discussions with my friends about my carry habits and recently got into a heated discussion about guns with one of them. Same person made an off hand remark about me carrying last year while at a holiday party at a mutual friends house and why I don't "feel safe". This was before the shooting at the Dallas Cowboy watching party recently. With everything going on around us these days, this reinforces why I carry every day no matter where I am with the exception of work.

Glad two people stepped up and did something about the shooter. No telling what would have happened if he had been allowed to continue. Now I need to get more serious about shooting more often and practicing with ALL my guns that I carry and maybe rethink what guns I rotate around. Even before this happened, I signed up for a two day class next month but I think I'm going to look into taking more.

If you see and sign and then post that you aware of of it, that's a violation. No one should post anything on any social media site that you were aware of a 30.06 or 30.07 and then violate the sign. You are asking for trouble in the event something happens. The first thing law enforcement, FBI, Texas Rangers, local police and the media look at are social media sites. Just my two cents.

[bblhd672]

It’s disgusting, isn’t it?

Vile and disgusting. There are many evil people in our country, some of them doing everything in their power to render us as serfs under their boots.

[Jose_in_Dallas]

If you see and sign and then post that you aware of of it, that's a violation. No one should post anything on any social media site that you were aware of a 30.06 or 30.07 and then violate the sign. You are asking for trouble in the event something happens. The first thing law enforcement, FBI, Texas Rangers, local police and the media look at are social media sites. Just my two cents.

Well hopefully they will only be looking into it if I ever get into any trouble and not before hand I'm not worried about my question but thanks for your concern.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I must admit that I have not had time to read every post in this thread. I apologize if this post duplicates another.

Here is a link to an update on the shooting. I think I heard it said that another update will be given at 7:00PM.
Chas.
https://www.facebook.com/WFLANewsChanne ... =2&theater

[bmwrdr]

Well, Gov Abbott has said that the shooter's application for a carry-permit was denied - so what did Texas know about him that the Feds couldn't find? I'm betting that it was the domestic violence charge - and if so, why couldn't the Feds find it?

Negligence!

[TexasJohnBoy]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/d ... texas.html

COLORADO SPRINGS — Before a gunman entered a rural Texas church with a ballistic vest and a military-style rifle, killing at least 26 people on Sunday, he was convicted of assaulting his wife and breaking his infant stepson’s skull.

In 2012, while stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Devin P. Kelley, 26, was charged with “assault on his spouse and assault on their child,” according to the Air Force.

How was this not a disqualifier for the NICS background check? ETA: If the Academy purchase is true??
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-r ... -convicted

[anygunanywhere]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/d ... texas.html

COLORADO SPRINGS — Before a gunman entered a rural Texas church with a ballistic vest and a military-style rifle, killing at least 26 people on Sunday, he was convicted of assaulting his wife and breaking his infant stepson’s skull.

In 2012, while stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Devin P. Kelley, 26, was charged with “assault on his spouse and assault on their child,” according to the Air Force.

How was this not a disqualifier for the NICS background check?
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-r ... -convicted

The FBI was too busy not investigating Shrillary and fabricating evidence against republicans.

[EastTexasRancher]

When I dressed for church yesterday, for some reason I slid my magazine pouch on my belt along with my OWB holster. First time ever I’ve done that for church. My wife even looked at me funny, ya know, one of those conversations without words spouses have. All hidden nicely under an untucked shirt. A .40, with spare mags.

I obviously didn’t need it, but when I heard of the tradgedy later in the day, my hair stood up on the back of my neck a little. As someone who lives life in code yellow, I think I’m moving to full-on code orange. How we travel, where we park, where we sit, all of this will now be re-evaluated.

A horrible world we now live in.

[Keith B]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/d ... texas.html

COLORADO SPRINGS — Before a gunman entered a rural Texas church with a ballistic vest and a military-style rifle, killing at least 26 people on Sunday, he was convicted of assaulting his wife and breaking his infant stepson’s skull.

In 2012, while stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Devin P. Kelley, 26, was charged with “assault on his spouse and assault on their child,” according to the Air Force.

How was this not a disqualifier for the NICS background check? ETA: If the Academy purchase is true??
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-r ... -convicted

My understanding is he was discharged on bad conduct, but not a dishonorable. That would still allow him to be eligible for a firearm. Was probably a plea-down to lower level

[TexasJohnBoy]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/d ... texas.html

COLORADO SPRINGS — Before a gunman entered a rural Texas church with a ballistic vest and a military-style rifle, killing at least 26 people on Sunday, he was convicted of assaulting his wife and breaking his infant stepson’s skull.

In 2012, while stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Devin P. Kelley, 26, was charged with “assault on his spouse and assault on their child,” according to the Air Force.

How was this not a disqualifier for the NICS background check? ETA: If the Academy purchase is true??
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-r ... -convicted

My understanding is he was discharged on bad conduct, but not a dishonorable. That would still allow him to be eligible for a firearm. Was probably a plea-down to lower level

Would this not be considered domestic violence, and therefore be a disqualifier? I understand that the dishonerable discharge was mistaken for bad conduct discharge, but my understanding is that domestic violence is a bar to gun ownership.

[bmwrdr]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/d ... texas.html

COLORADO SPRINGS — Before a gunman entered a rural Texas church with a ballistic vest and a military-style rifle, killing at least 26 people on Sunday, he was convicted of assaulting his wife and breaking his infant stepson’s skull.

In 2012, while stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Devin P. Kelley, 26, was charged with “assault on his spouse and assault on their child,” according to the Air Force.

How was this not a disqualifier for the NICS background check? ETA: If the Academy purchase is true??
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-r ... -convicted

My understanding is he was discharged on bad conduct, but not a dishonorable. That would still allow him to be eligible for a firearm. Was probably a plea-down to lower level

Would this not be considered domestic violence, and therefore be a disqualifier? I understand that the dishonerable discharge was mistaken for bad conduct discharge, but my understanding is that domestic violence is a bar to gun ownership.

He could not qualify for a CHL/LTC and therefore I'd assume the state law enforcement had it right but the background check when he purchased the gun(s) was flawed.