Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

[Heartland Patriot]

It stuns me a little bit to hear Obama saying he is not going to use this tragedy to advance gun control.

It stuns me that anyone would believe a single word of anything that comes out of that Stalinists mouth.

Question: How can you tell if Obama is lying?
Answer: His lips are moving.

Isn't this the guy who reportedly told the Brady Campaign that he would be working on it, but "under the radar"? Which is what I still believe F&F to have been: an attempt to drum up public support for a renewed AWB or other anti-firearms legislation, to back up the twisted numbers game that was being fueled by the press and bolstered by people such as El Presidente de Mexico, Felipe Calderon...

[03Lightningrocks]

Who is it that votes people like that woman into office? She has got to be the single most ignorant human being in America today.

The NRA should tell her to pound wood! Why are the socialists having so much trouble understanding the concept of our 2nd admendment rights? I don't recall hunting as the reason for the RKBA. It is to protect us from people like her in the government!

[03Lightningrocks]

It stuns me a little bit to hear Obama saying he is not going to use this tragedy to advance gun control.

It stuns me that anyone would believe a single word of anything that comes out of that Stalinists mouth.

Question: How can you tell if Obama is lying?
Answer: His lips are moving.

Isn't this the guy who reportedly told the Brady Campaign that he would be working on it, but "under the radar"? Which is what I still believe F&F to have been: an attempt to drum up public support for a renewed AWB or other anti-firearms legislation, to back up the twisted numbers game that was being fueled by the press and bolstered by people such as El Presidente de Mexico, Felipe Calderon...

That would be the guy!

[Greybeard]

Uncle Mas opines and provides several links confirming signage. http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAy ... ree-zones/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[The Annoyed Man]

Rodger Ebert comments on the owning of guns in light of the shooting in the movie theater.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2012/07 ... count.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The sun times must have a whip crack good team of moderaters.  There is not a single dissenting option in the comments section.  Anti gunners wish they could stuff the genie back in a bottle.

I see lots of dissenting opinion now, though the majority are antis --which, really, isn't a big surprise.  Ebert is a liberal movie critic...his bread and butter is Holloywood movie liberalism...and most of the movies he reviews probably appeal more to liberals than conservatives, so I suspect his audience is primarily liberals. He also resides and writes for a paper in one of the most liberal and corrupt cities in the nation....who would voluntarily live there but a liberal?

Well, I doubt it will be approved for publication, but here is the respons I posted (under the name "whamprod"):

Small problem with your suggestion regarding form 4473....

Without a necessary adjudication of insanity, anybody could make an accusation of insanity against someone who is not insane, merely for the purpose of stripping that person of a constitutional right with which the accuser disagrees, or for the just as venal purpose of "punishing" someone whom accuser does not like. Requiring adjudication of insanity is what keeps rights alive. How many people, for instance, have been added to the "no-fly" list who have never been part of a terrorist organization or made terroristic threats against anyone? It happens all the time, and the government has conveniently removed itself from accountability regarding maintenance of that list. Once on it, even wrongly so, it is nearly impossible and extremely expensive to get one's self removed from it. How many people have been falsely accused of rape and/or child molestation? It happens, and people have actually been imprisoned on such false charges which were later dropped when the accuser recanted their testimony.

Form 4473 also asks a lot of other questions about criminal convictions, legal residency, spousal abuse, etc. ALL of the answers to these questions can be lied about on the form, but theoretically, all false forms will be rejected by NICS—unless you are Eric Holder's Justice Department instructing conscientious gun sellers to ignore their misgivings and knowingly sell a gun to a suspected cartel member, so that it can be smuggled into Mexico and used to execute hundreds of Mexican nationals in their own country.

Crazy people who have not been adjudicated as insane and who have never had intervention from a psychiatric professional are simply a risk we take as a free society. Time after time after time, the liberal response to tragedy is to advocate for the repression of God-given (or "natural" if you prefer that term) human rights. The Supreme Court of the United States of America has ruled definitively that police have no duty to protect. They don't. So, how do we resolve that? After all, they may not have a duty to protect, but we do have an absolute right to be safe in our persons and property, and any violation of that is a violation of one of the fundamental tenets upon which any orderly society is based.

It is an undeniable fact that when you disarm law-abiding people, only the law-breakers remain armed. Don't believe me? Who owns handguns in Great Britain these days—the law abiding, or the law breakers? That's a valid question because there are still a lot of handguns in the hands of private persons in Great Britain, just not law-abiding persons, and those guns do get used in crimes. Despite all of her draconian gun laws, Great Britain still has gun crime. It has not been eliminated.

When you remove the ability of someone to defend him/herself with a gun from someone who has no such regard for the law, you have committed a great immorality. And that is what is so terribly wrong with the liberal gun control agenda: it is immoral. It states that the life of a law-abiding citizen is worth less than the life of a criminal, and this in a society in which police are under no constitutional obligation to protect the public.

Liberals are actively involved in creating a nation of sheep.....which is perfect for them (the liberals) because it justifies their top-down nanny state utopian ideals.

In a recent interview by an obviously anti-gun biased "journalist," rapper Iced-T was asked if he thought that banning semiautomatic rifles and larger capacity magazines wouldn't prevent another Aurora, Colorado style massacre. He answered, correctly, that no it would not...not even if you successfully removed every one of them from circulation...because crazy Islamists (as opposed to mainstream peaceful muslims) have proven time and again that one person can strap on a suicide vest and take out a hundred innocent victims instead of the dozen or so that this maniac in Aurora killed. It isn't about the gun. It is about the heart of the person wielding it. If that person is driven to kill, and he can't get a gun, he'll use something else. And thanks to the generations of sheep that liberals have been creating, 19 clearly insane people killed 3,000 innocent people on 9/11 with BOXCUTTERS(!!!), because with the exception of Todd Beamer and those few hardy souls on Flight 93, nobody on any of those four airliners had the courage to challenge a maniac with a boxcutter. So now, thanks to those bent, twisted "martyrs of the one truth faith," you and I cannot carry a pair of fingernail clippers or a penknife onboard an airliner. Thanks to someone else with a failed bomb in his panties, we can't carry 3.5 oz of shampoo onto an airplane. That is the typical nanny-state response. It may well be crazy to shoot up a movie theater, but it's even crazier when seemingly free and sovereign citizens make the inexplicably cowardly choice to live in fear and stamp out the natural rights of their fellow citizens in an ultimatey futile attempt to make the world into a kind and gentle place......a world which has never been kind and gentle throughout the entire span of humanity's existence!

No, free societies are not without risks. Dress accordingly. I carry .45 caliber pistol everywhere I go. Everywhere. And no, that does not make me paranoid. It makes me no more and no less paranoid than someone who keeps a fire-extinguisher in their kitchen. And just as that fire-extinguisher doesn't get in the way of the cook's enjoyment of cooking and puttering about their kitchen, that gun on my hip in no way gets in the way of having a normal happy day just like anybody else's normal happy day. It simple means that I have proactively chosen to prepare myself for the however remote possiblity of having to protect myself. That is called "taking responsibility" over that part of my life for which the government is not responsible. If the law prevents me from entering a business with my concealed pistol because of the signs posted on the doors, then being a law abiding citizen, I take my business elsewhere where I will be more welcome. In the meantime, not one single one of those signs will keep the armed felon or the armed maniac from carrying a concealed weapon into that same place. In other words, the signs make it more dangerous rather than less dangerous to enter those places.

The poor people who were shot in that Aurora theater realistically had no logical expectation that this theater was any safer than any other theater, because those signs barring a legally concealed weapon from being carried into the theater were nothing more than......well....theater.

How far have we strayed from the nation's founding principles when the right to free speech includes the right to view and sell pornography made by women who are treated as simple sex objects without a brain; when the "right" to contraception includes the "right" to terminate a human life for the mere convenience of the mother; and when the most basic and fundamental right to keep and bear arms is continually under assault from people who do not basically and fundamentally value human rights? This nation was founded on the principle that our rights are natural. They exist before government exists. They exist because we live and breath. They can only be taken from us by taking our lives away.

There are people today, Roger Ebert among them, who have a bully pulpit not shared by the vast majority of Americans, and who advocate for the crushing of personal freedom because they themselves lack the courage or stamina to face the fact that the world is not the warm, safe womb they wish it were. It is a broken place, full of broken people, some of whom have murderous impulses, and SCOTUS has ruled that we must depend upon ourselves for protection. Roger Ebert, and his kind, wish to remove from us the means of that protection, and that is an immoral position, based upon willful blindness.

And when it comes to the age old real reason behind the 2nd Amendment—not hunting, but protection from a tyrannical government—that tyranny is exactly what the Eberts of the world argue for when they argue for the removal of that most basic right and the right to implement and exercise that right by whatever means the holder of it deems necessary. In a world where you cannot remove obscenity from free speech, asking or requiring citizens to accept limitations on their choice of firearm ownership and use is itself obscene.

[Heartland Patriot]

Debate over whether a court would determine that the “guns forbidden” policy carried power of law seems moot: we’re talking practical reality here. Most of us go by the common sense precept, “Do not go where you are not wanted.” Armed citizens who could have stopped the killer were clearly notified by the company policy that “they were not welcome there.”
When you make potential rescuers unwelcome, do not blame those potential rescuers for not being there when the disaster happens, and the death toll mounts because what could have stopped the killing has been banned from your establishment.

THIS is what I was trying to get at earlier in this topic. I know that KeithB pointed out the LAWS in Colorado did not keep anyone out who was carrying, but I think Mas did a good job of summing up what I was trying to say about it.

[VMI77]

It stuns me a little bit to hear Obama saying he is not going to use this tragedy to advance gun control.

Why? Of course he isn't, he's going to wait to enact his gun control agenda until after the election --or he's flat out lying. I don't see why either possibility should surprise anyone --he's a pathological liar.

[VMI77]

Rodger Ebert comments on the owning of guns in light of the shooting in the movie theater.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2012/07 ... count.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The sun times must have a whip crack good team of moderaters.  There is not a single dissenting option in the comments section.  Anti gunners wish they could stuff the genie back in a bottle.

I see lots of dissenting opinion now, though the majority are antis --which, really, isn't a big surprise.  Ebert is a liberal movie critic...his bread and butter is Holloywood movie liberalism...and most of the movies he reviews probably appeal more to liberals than conservatives, so I suspect his audience is primarily liberals. He also resides and writes for a paper in one of the most liberal and corrupt cities in the nation....who would voluntarily live there but a liberal?

Well, I doubt it will be approved for publication, but here is the respons I posted (under the name "whamprod"):

Small problem with your suggestion regarding form 4473....

Without a necessary adjudication of insanity, anybody could make an accusation of insanity against someone who is not insane, merely for the purpose of stripping that person of a constitutional right with which the accuser disagrees, or for the just as venal purpose of "punishing" someone whom accuser does not like. Requiring adjudication of insanity is what keeps rights alive. How many people, for instance, have been added to the "no-fly" list who have never been part of a terrorist organization or made terroristic threats against anyone? It happens all the time, and the government has conveniently removed itself from accountability regarding maintenance of that list. Once on it, even wrongly so, it is nearly impossible and extremely expensive to get one's self removed from it. How many people have been falsely accused of rape and/or child molestation? It happens, and people have actually been imprisoned on such false charges which were later dropped when the accuser recanted their testimony.

Form 4473 also asks a lot of other questions about criminal convictions, legal residency, spousal abuse, etc. ALL of the answers to these questions can be lied about on the form, but theoretically, all false forms will be rejected by NICS—unless you are Eric Holder's Justice Department instructing conscientious gun sellers to ignore their misgivings and knowingly sell a gun to a suspected cartel member, so that it can be smuggled into Mexico and used to execute hundreds of Mexican nationals in their own country.

Crazy people who have not been adjudicated as insane and who have never had intervention from a psychiatric professional are simply a risk we take as a free society. Time after time after time, the liberal response to tragedy is to advocate for the repression of God-given (or "natural" if you prefer that term) human rights. The Supreme Court of the United States of America has ruled definitively that police have no duty to protect. They don't. So, how do we resolve that? After all, they may not have a duty to protect, but we do have an absolute right to be safe in our persons and property, and any violation of that is a violation of one of the fundamental tenets upon which any orderly society is based.

It is an undeniable fact that when you disarm law-abiding people, only the law-breakers remain armed. Don't believe me? Who owns handguns in Great Britain these days—the law abiding, or the law breakers? That's a valid question because there are still a lot of handguns in the hands of private persons in Great Britain, just not law-abiding persons, and those guns do get used in crimes. Despite all of her draconian gun laws, Great Britain still has gun crime. It has not been eliminated.

When you remove the ability of someone to defend him/herself with a gun from someone who has no such regard for the law, you have committed a great immorality. And that is what is so terribly wrong with the liberal gun control agenda: it is immoral. It states that the life of a law-abiding citizen is worth less than the life of a criminal, and this in a society in which police are under no constitutional obligation to protect the public.

Liberals are actively involved in creating a nation of sheep.....which is perfect for them (the liberals) because it justifies their top-down nanny state utopian ideals.

In a recent interview by an obviously anti-gun biased "journalist," rapper Iced-T was asked if he thought that banning semiautomatic rifles and larger capacity magazines wouldn't prevent another Aurora, Colorado style massacre. He answered, correctly, that no it would not...not even if you successfully removed every one of them from circulation...because crazy Islamists (as opposed to mainstream peaceful muslims) have proven time and again that one person can strap on a suicide vest and take out a hundred innocent victims instead of the dozen or so that this maniac in Aurora killed. It isn't about the gun. It is about the heart of the person wielding it. If that person is driven to kill, and he can't get a gun, he'll use something else. And thanks to the generations of sheep that liberals have been creating, 19 clearly insane people killed 3,000 innocent people on 9/11 with BOXCUTTERS(!!!), because with the exception of Todd Beamer and those few hardy souls on Flight 93, nobody on any of those four airliners had the courage to challenge a maniac with a boxcutter. So now, thanks to those bent, twisted "martyrs of the one truth faith," you and I cannot carry a pair of fingernail clippers or a penknife onboard an airliner. Thanks to someone else with a failed bomb in his panties, we can't carry 3.5 oz of shampoo onto an airplane. That is the typical nanny-state response. It may well be crazy to shoot up a movie theater, but it's even crazier when seemingly free and sovereign citizens make the inexplicably cowardly choice to live in fear and stamp out the natural rights of their fellow citizens in an ultimatey futile attempt to make the world into a kind and gentle place......a world which has never been kind and gentle throughout the entire span of humanity's existence!

No, free societies are not without risks. Dress accordingly. I carry .45 caliber pistol everywhere I go. Everywhere. And no, that does not make me paranoid. It makes me no more and no less paranoid than someone who keeps a fire-extinguisher in their kitchen. And just as that fire-extinguisher doesn't get in the way of the cook's enjoyment of cooking and puttering about their kitchen, that gun on my hip in no way gets in the way of having a normal happy day just like anybody else's normal happy day. It simple means that I have proactively chosen to prepare myself for the however remote possiblity of having to protect myself. That is called "taking responsibility" over that part of my life for which the government is not responsible. If the law prevents me from entering a business with my concealed pistol because of the signs posted on the doors, then being a law abiding citizen, I take my business elsewhere where I will be more welcome. In the meantime, not one single one of those signs will keep the armed felon or the armed maniac from carrying a concealed weapon into that same place. In other words, the signs make it more dangerous rather than less dangerous to enter those places.

The poor people who were shot in that Aurora theater realistically had no logical expectation that this theater was any safer than any other theater, because those signs barring a legally concealed weapon from being carried into the theater were nothing more than......well....theater.

How far have we strayed from the nation's founding principles when the right to free speech includes the right to view and sell pornography made by women who are treated as simple sex objects without a brain; when the "right" to contraception includes the "right" to terminate a human life for the mere convenience of the mother; and when the most basic and fundamental right to keep and bear arms is continually under assault from people who do not basically and fundamentally value human rights? This nation was founded on the principle that our rights are natural. They exist before government exists. They exist because we live and breath. They can only be taken from us by taking our lives away.

There are people today, Roger Ebert among them, who have a bully pulpit not shared by the vast majority of Americans, and who advocate for the crushing of personal freedom because they themselves lack the courage or stamina to face the fact that the world is not the warm, safe womb they wish it were. It is a broken place, full of broken people, some of whom have murderous impulses, and SCOTUS has ruled that we must depend upon ourselves for protection. Roger Ebert, and his kind, wish to remove from us the means of that protection, and that is an immoral position, based upon willful blindness.

And when it comes to the age old real reason behind the 2nd Amendment—not hunting, but protection from a tyrannical government—that tyranny is exactly what the Eberts of the world argue for when they argue for the removal of that most basic right and the right to implement and exercise that right by whatever means the holder of it deems necessary. In a world where you cannot remove obscenity from free speech, asking or requiring citizens to accept limitations on their choice of firearm ownership and use is itself obscene.

Mmmm, yeah, they're probably not going to publish that --too many facts and too much logic; that's the kind of argument that might sway someone intelligent and undecided. Liberalism, in the sense in which it is applied today, is fundamentally and inherently immoral, so there are only two types of liberals: those who isolate themselves from such a realization through cognitive dissonance; and those to whom it doesn't matter. A lot of well meaning but misguided people fall in the former category; Obama and other power seeking collectivists fall into the latter category.

[C-dub]

Rep. Jackson-Lee seems to think the answer to the problem of crazies with guns
lies within the NRA and she wants to talk to them........or something like that.

"Rep. Jackson Lee will seek meeting with NRA about response to Colo. shootings"

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/h ... o-shooting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With LUCK, maybe she will get an education.

[Shoot_First]

Much is being said in the media and a few in Congress about Holmes buying 6,000 rounds of ammo via the Internet. Would they be satisfied if the same purchase was made from a sporting goods or gun store or from Wal-Mart? I have purchased several thousand rounds at a time from Wal-Mart. I buy where I find it the cheapest. I suppose if they knew I have over 15,000 rounds on hand they would go ballistic and compared to some on this forum my ammo stock is a pittance.

Would these pundits raise the same questions about a purchase of 6,000 gallons of gasoline? The anti supporting media just does not get it and never will: 4 guns = arsenal, AR-15 is civilian version of M-16, equating Internet purchase of a firearm to that of an I-Pod because they don't know or care to know what actually is involved, talking about the "gun show loophole" as if the FFL vendors at a gun show were not following the 4473/NICS process, and it goes on and on. For all the good it will do, today I mailed a two page letter to ABC News. I'm not holding my breath awaiting the reply but I feel better.

[philip964]

The shooter was getting a federal grant to study, so the government provided the money for him to buy the guns.

[teri]

The shooter was getting a federal grant to study, so the government provided the money for him to buy the guns.

Bingo!

[03Lightningrocks]

The shooter was getting a federal grant to study, so the government provided the money for him to buy the guns.

Bingo!

You folks don't understand how Liberals look at government entitlements. Like food cards and medicaid cards, they don't look at it as spending government money on non essential items. Of coarse the entitlement allowed them to spend money they normally would not have had available, on guns. The pile of money they received from the government was not the pile they actually took the money for guns out of. Kind of like when you see people use food cards for groceries and then spend twenty five dollars on cigarettes and 30 dollars on a bottle of cheap liquor. The food card money was not the pile they used to buy cigarettes and booze so it is OK. Get it now?

[sjfcontrol]

The shooter was getting a federal grant to study, so the government provided the money for him to buy the guns.

Bingo!

You folks don't understand how Liberals look at government entitlements. Like food cards and medicaid cards, they don't look at it as spending government money on non essential items. Of coarse the entitlement allowed them to spend money they normally would not have had available, on guns. The pile of money they received from the government was not the pile they actually took the money for guns out of. Kind of like when you see people use food cards for groceries and then spend twenty five dollars on cigarettes and 30 dollars on a bottle of cheap liquor. The food card money was not the pile they used to buy cigarettes and booze so it is OK. Get it now?

Wow! You must drink the REALLY good stuff!!

[77346]

Well, this was just a matter of time: http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2012/ ... ter-warne/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Friend of one of the victims suing Cinemark, Holmes' doctors and Warner Bros.

Somebody has to be responsible for the rampant violence that is shown today"

hmmm... how about the shooter?