Licensed open-carry or unlicensed open-carry?

[Pacific Job]

We're all influenced by our own experiences. My experiences are visible long guns aren't a problem in Texas and visible handguns aren't a problem in states I visit where it's legal. Other people maybe have different experiences.

Also based on my experiences, I support legalizing campus carry, as long as private schools can post 30.06 like any other non-government business.

[74novaman]

I've had an AR-15, scoped .22 and an AK sitting out in the open on a backseat in the panhandle with not a concern for what the cop would say if he pulled me over. That being said, laws are made in Austin, not Amarillo.

I really do support unlicensed open and concealed carry. You're just going to have a hard time convincing me that the time to push for it is right now, and I'm really freaking sick of being called "anti-rights" because I'm not an optimist when it comes to congress and the media.

[Bullwhip]

Anybody else bother noticing this poll says only 15% don't support open carry?

[Purplehood]

I get it now. Some people think that legalized open carry of rifles isn't a problem in Texas, therefore legalizing open carry of handguns in Texas will definitely cause problems. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

I agree with 74novaman. I would invite you to carry any long-gun down the main drag of Austin for a period of time and let us know how it went.
It is my sincere belief that if you do so, you will get a feel for how the public might react to OC.

Don't get me wrong. I support OC, but am not fervent about it.

I support the First Amendment and an individual right to say nasty and obnoxious things (short of threats), but I don't necessarily think that they are the appropriate thing to do in some situations.

[baldeagle]

Anybody else bother noticing this poll says only 15% don't support open carry?

Yes, but it's not a scientific poll. It's not even a poll of the members of this forum. It's a poll of a handful of active members who care to participate. It's not meaningless, but it's not terribly meaningful either. For example, we could extend the logic that, if 15% of people on a CHL forum do not support open carry at all, the public at large probably doesn't support it in a higher percentage than that. That tells me that getting it passed could be an uphill battle.

[SA-TX]

Since the question asked whether I support licensed or unlicensed open carry, I chose unlicensed because I do not think that fundamental constitutional rights should be licensed. From the perspective of political tactics is a licensed OC bill probably a better first step? Yes, I think it is. Does it stand a better chance of passage? I suspect it does. Would I support it even though I'd prefer to see more freedom? Absolutely.

SA-TX

[Bullwhip]

Since the question asked whether I support licensed or unlicensed open carry, I chose unlicensed because I do not think that fundamental constitutional rights should be licensed. From the perspective of political tactics is a licensed OC bill probably a better first step? Yes, I think it is. Does it stand a better chance of passage? I suspect it does. Would I support it even though I'd prefer to see more freedom? Absolutely.

SA-TX

[GrandSporTA]

Is Texas legislation really thinking about introducing an open carry bill for 2011?

[C-dub]

I would rather have unlicensed OC, but obviously would be okay with licensed OC. However, as far as being a step towards unlicensed OC, I wonder how likely it is to get changed from licensed to unlicensed at any point. I don't see that as very likely or likely at all. I see it as possible, but not likely.

[Jumping Frog]

I support unlicensed open carry for many reasons.

• First and foremost because I truly believe that our right to self defense is a God-given right, not granted to us by a government. If a citizen is required to purchase training and pay a tax, how does that fit in with the whole concept of "shall not be infringed"?
• Second, the many, many times I have open carried have been examples of my exercising BOTH my Second Amendment right AND my First Amendment right. Open carrying a handgun in our modern urban society is most definitely an exercise in political "speech".
• I have found that open carrying is a great opportunity to educate and convert people who are curious about guns but not part of the gun culture. I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone get really excited about learning that open carry was their right as a citizen under the state constitution. I've spoken to many, many, many random people over the years while open carrying, and the vast majority of those conversations helped to advance our gun rights by helping to convert people's attitude, one person at a time. You'd be surprised at the questions I get asked. For example, many people assume from watching TV that they have to "register" a gun, and are amazed when they realize that isn't necessary at all.
• I also like to open carry because it is comfortable. I haven't yet experienced a Texas summer, but an Ohio day that is 95 degrees and 100 percent humidity is far easier to dress for when open carrying.
• As far as gangsters and thugs are concerned, they don't carry their handguns in a holster. Every police officer that I have interacted with when open carrying assumed I was a legitimate citizen when open carrying, because a properly holstered handgun on the hip isn't something that a gangbanger does.
• I've never had a policeman remove my handgun or ask for identification. I've simply talked calmly with them. Of course, since there was no RAS for a Terry stop, they didn't have any probable cause or statutory basis to disarm me or require ID. (I am not stupid, however. I do carry a voice recorder.)
• I get irritated by fellow CHL'ers that get a whole superior elitist attitude which assumes since they have jumped through the hoops and paid the money to get licensed, they are somehow better than other people who also need self defense. The poor black and hispanic women who are in downtown Houston cleaning office buildings and then riding a bus back to poor neighborhoods at midnight have an even greater need for self defense, and they should have to be priced out of the market to protect their life.
• Finally, if you make it licensed open carry, then you will create a group who have an economic interest in maintaining high prices, barriers to entry, and the status quo. That group includes the instructors lining up every two years to pay their $100 tax and get blessed by the bureaucracy so that they can charge the public, as well as the government staff who directly or indirectly benefit from the jobs created and the license fees paid.
• For the people who think that the "sheeple" aren't ready for it, that change in public perception can only start happening when it gradually becomes normal, and thus un-alarming, to see armed people. Ohio is way more liberal that here; I can't believe this can't work in Texas.

Another issue is disarming the OCer by LEO. if CHLer can be disarmed why not OCer in normal contact by LEO?

Why be content to line up to be a good sheep? I don't think CHLers should be disarmed either.

I support licensed open-carry. There is something comforting to me knowing that CHL'ers have been vetted and have at least a little training in the use of weapons.

There is something comforting to me knowing that I am an American with rights paid for with my ancestor's blood. I trust ordinary American common sense more than I trust a government bureacrat, anyday. Of course, the flip side to freedom is if someone doesn't take responsibility for themselves, their own training, and their own behavior, then there are natural consequences.

From a public policy perspective, requiring background checks, competency tests, etc. before carrying in public makes a certain amount of sense. Think about a driver's license--it's nice to know that (in theory, at least) the 'other guy' on the road has demonstrated a basic understanding of the laws involved and some minimal level of competency in operating a moving vehicle.

A drivers license never made it into the Bill Of Rights. Carrying a handgun is a basic human right.

In Unlic carrry, can a LEO stop and ask for ID and check if the OCer is not a felon? Or do you allow the violent felons to OC?

It it is unlicensed, then the police are required to have reasonable articulable suspicion to detain someone. Besides, felons aren't open carrying anyway. A holstered handgun on your belt is far too visible for the gangbangers.

Agreed. If OC is licensed, then the law will most certainly require that we show our ID and license upon demand. (Similar to what we already have for CHL.)

I agree. I also belive the mandatory notification is bad policy anyway. It does nothing to protect a police officer from a felon with a gun in the car. It simply serves as a reason to make an accidental criminal out of an otherwise law abiding citizen. For example, we had one case in Ohio where a licensee was charged because he couldn't interrupt the LEO in time and the dashboard camera showed it took him 51 seconds to notify.

But the most important reason of all is this - when it comes to 2A rights, any licensing scheme is nothing more than a system of bribes. That includes both OC and CHL. It's no different from a poll tax, and it has its roots in the same insidious racism. Requiring a class and a license places an undue burden on all classes of people and especially serves to disenfranchise the poor - those who need the right most of all. Also, the time required to issue the license thwarts those whose need is most urgent (think domestic abuse). Martin Luther King Jr. stated, "A right delayed is a right denied." I would add to that, "A right which must be purchased is no right at all." In Texas, it is currently illegal to carry a firearm without a mandatory expense and waiting period (aka a CHL). This flies in the face of the Constitution, and licensed OC would do nothing to resolve this abhorrence.

I agree 1000%

[Gunsmoke]

I am all for licensed open and concealed carry for the practical reason that it gets very hot here in Texas and concealed carry tends to be a problem. This would save a lot of licensed folks a lot of the unnecessary hassle that we tend to get because of accidental exposure or printing. Also I think that if a licensed carrier had a way to display their license on or next to their holster, this would eliminate a lot of the unnecessary Hassle from LEOs. This whole thing could be simple. Take a CHL class with the open carry or concealed option and display the license on or next to the holster. The LEOs would be happy and the rest of us would be happy. Lots of media coverage educating the general public would also be helpful.

[Pawpaw]

I am all for licensed open and concealed carry for the practical reason that it gets very hot here in Texas and concealed carry tends to be a problem. This would save a lot of licensed folks a lot of the unnecessary hassle that we tend to get because of accidental exposure or printing. Also I think that if a licensed carrier had a way to display their license on or next to their holster, this would eliminate a lot of the unnecessary Hassle from LEOs. This whole thing could be simple. Take a CHL class with the open carry or concealed option and display the license on or next to the holster. The LEOs would be happy and the rest of us would be happy. Lots of media coverage educating the general public would also be helpful.

And there you are, walking around with your name, address, & TXDL number in plain view. One quick cell phone pic and away you go with identity theft or a host of other problems.

No thanks.

[hirundo82]

Take a CHL class with the open carry or concealed option and display the license on or next to the holster. The LEOs would be happy and the rest of us would be happy. Lots of media coverage educating the general public would also be helpful.

And there you are, walking around with your name, address, & TXDL number in plain view. One quick cell phone pic and away you go with identity theft or a host of other problems.

No thanks.

Take the open plus concealed carry class, and along with your card the state sents you a badge to wear when you open carry.

[Pacifist]

Ultimately, unlicensed, but incrementally, licensed as we ain't gonna get it all at once in Texas.

[Grog]

Take the open plus concealed carry class, and along with your card the state sents you a badge to wear when you open carry.

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