HB195 v. HB??/SB??: Are storm clouds gathering?

[Wolverine]

As I've said before, the best thing for those that want more firearm restrictions is to get two factions on the other side to in-fight... It's much more effective than any amount of political funding or social agenda.

A house divided is easy prey for the wolves.

[Charles L. Cotton]

As I've said before, the best thing for those that want more firearm restrictions is to get two factions on the other side to in-fight... It's much more effective than any amount of political funding or social agenda.

A house divided is easy prey for the wolves.

NRA/TSRA are the house and we aren't divided.

Chas.

[Bladed]

As I've said before, the best thing for those that want more firearm restrictions is to get two factions on the other side to in-fight... It's much more effective than any amount of political funding or social agenda.

A house divided is easy prey for the wolves.

NRA/TSRA are the house and we aren't divided.

Chas.

The man speaks the truth. I don't always agree with the NRA and TSRA, but there is no denying that when it comes to gun rights, the NRA and TSRA are the only groups that hold significant sway over the Texas Legislature. They hold that sway because they've earned it. Alice Tripp (TSRA) and Tara Mica (NRA) are constantly working behind the scenes to keep good bills alive, send bad bills to an early grave, and tweak bills that might inadvertently impact gun rights. To be clear, I don't mean they're making Facebook posts asking people to call legislators; I mean their sitting down with legislators and hammering out the types of agreements necessary to effect the desired result. During the 81% of the biennium when the legislature isn't in session, Alice and Tara are hard at working laying the groundwork for the next session. They've been doing this since I was a teenager, and the NRA and TSRA have been doing it since before any of us were born.

Grassroots gun-rights organizations (e.g., Students for Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas) are a good and necessary part of the gun-rights movement, but whenever the leader of some upstart claims that the NRA and TSRA are trying to suppress his or her organization, I have to roll my eyes and laugh. The NRA and TSRA don't have to suppress anybody, because no other group can come close to matching their experience and clout. This is probably why it's so tempting for a grassroots activist on a power trip to turn his or her attention to subverting/undermining the efforts of the NRA and TSRA. The thinking seems to be, 'If I can't be king, I'll burn the kingdom to the ground.'

[74novaman]

As with CHL, the Motorist Protection Act has not resulted in any of the problems the anti-gunners shouted from the rooftops. Unlicensed carry has not proven to be a problem in the few other states that allow it, so that adds a bit more comfort.

Most crimes are committed by repeat offenders and a very large percentage of them will be convicted felons, meaning they cannot legally carry. HB195 faces an uphill battle, but there may be no better session to make an attempt.

Chas.

Agreed 100%. I've heard people make the argument that a CHL is needed because people need to be trained how to carry. My response is always that responsible people will seek out training regardless of whether or not the law mandates it, and that there were no incidents in states like Arizona or Alaska that can be blamed on a lack of a CHL class after they both enacted constitutional carry.

[Jumping Frog]

I've heard people make the argument that a CHL is needed because people need to be trained how to carry. My response is always that responsible people will seek out training regardless of whether or not the law mandates it, and that there were no incidents in states like Arizona or Alaska that can be blamed on a lack of a CHL class after they both enacted constitutional carry.

Haven't seen any blood running in the streets of Vermont either.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Chas will any of these include a provision whereby OC is limited via a 30.06 sign?

Absolutely not!

Chas.

Thanks for the comfort. That was my concern - that this will bring a wave of 30.06 signs.

[74novaman]

I've heard people make the argument that a CHL is needed because people need to be trained how to carry. My response is always that responsible people will seek out training regardless of whether or not the law mandates it, and that there were no incidents in states like Arizona or Alaska that can be blamed on a lack of a CHL class after they both enacted constitutional carry.

Haven't seen any blood running in the streets of Vermont either.

Vermont has been a Constitutional Carry state for a long time , right?

The reason I mentioned Alaska and Arizona is they went from permit required to CC more recently, so they parallel our situation more closely.

[Jumping Frog]

Vermont has been a Constitutional Carry state for a long time

Vermont has never restricted the keeping or bearing of arms. There was nothing to repeal.

[CJ Grisham]

Sigh. More NRA attacks on Texas pro-gun groups. I realize the NRA/TSRA cabal probably finds us threatening as a Texas gun rights organization (I don't speak for OCTC, not affiliated with Open Carry Texas) because it threatens their stranglehold on power. After all, these are the same organizations that said we wouldn't last six months, we were hurting any chance of open carry passing in the 84th Legislature, and continue to say we have no political clout while ignoring our achievements. These are also the same groups that have perpetuated the liberal fear mongering by attacking the public display of certain firearms.

Well, it's been 18 months and we're larger than ever. Open carry is a virtue certainty next year. We are heavily involved at both the state and grassroots level in the political game. We were heavily involved in several races around Texas that got us pro-2A candidates in primaries and general.

Charles Cotton is agitated because his and Alice Tripp's attempts to bully me and our members didn't work. It seems obvious the NRA/TSRA is dependent upon licensing away your gun rights because many states use their training and certification efforts in the CHL process.

When was the last time you heard the NRA mention "constitutional carry" as an agenda of theirs? If this legislation is already submitted, why wouldn't the NRA throw its weight behind it? And why is, yet again, the NRA attacking pro -2A groups who are (successfully) fighting to bring more gun rights to Texas? In fact, why hasn't either organization submitted such legislation themselves? Instead, they preemptively attack us for daring not to budge on our rights.

I'm an Endowment Life and Golden Eagles member of the NRA, so I'm not speaking from the outside here. I've paid my dues, so to speak. I've given thousands of dollars to the NRA over just the past two years, much more over my life. What did the NRA ever accomplish to bring open carry to Texas before we came along? Nothing. Over the past 20 years, how many bills has the NRA sponsored to lower the cost of the CHL, make it easier to obtain, or even do away with it as a requirement altogether? I'm sure there are some here and there, but if they have such clout, where are the results?

I learned pretty quickly that my money is best served supporting a national organization that isn't interested in licensing my rights away - National Association for Gun Rights. What Cotton here won't admit is that homegrown groups like Open Carry Texas, Texas Carry and Come and Take It Texas are the reason we will get open carry next year. The NRA/TSRA have done nothing but ride our coattails and try to undermine our efforts. They've virtually demanded that we stop exercising our rights because the gun control extremists weren't happy with such blatant exercising of a right. Instead of standing up to them, they stood against law abiding gun owners. It's threatening to the gunopoly to have these upstarts showing them up. We aren't multi million dollar corporations, we're member led.

Now that the pissing contest is out of the way, let's talk open carry. The FACT is that five states already have constitutional carry and it benefits those states. 31 states have UNLICENSED open carry and it isn't a problem. There is absolutely NO REASON why Texas needs to go to licensed open carry. None.

Our more than 30,000 members have worked the streets for pro gun candidates, walked thousands of miles handing out literature, spoken at hundreds of tea party and civic events, marched in parades, contacted leaders in Texas politics, held more than 2000 open carry events, secured support from hundreds of open carry friendly businesses across the state, worked tirelessly with law enforcement, and made clear all along we won't accept having our rights legislated away while standing first on our rights as protected in our state and federal constitutions.

Why should we beg for the right to carry a handgun openly with a license when we've spent the past 18 months carrying rifles and black powder revolvers (something else both the NRA and TSRA tried to stop us from doing) openly without a license. We've proven that open carry doesn't cause crime, doesn't hurt people, and can be done responsibly. No one was hurt, shot, raped, assaulted, maimed, or killed.

It's a sad day that Charles Cotton continues his attacks on our members without cause. He must be getting desperate and bitterly clinging to his relevance. Perhaps he should focus more on unity and gun rights and less on splintering gun owners.

CJ Grisham
Open Carry Texas

[G.A. Heath]

Sigh. More NRA attacks on Texas pro-gun groups. I realize the NRA/TSRA cabal probably finds us threatening as a Texas gun rights organization (I don't speak for OCTC, not affiliated with Open Carry Texas) because it threatens their stranglehold on power. After all, these are the same organizations that said we wouldn't last six months, we were hurting any chance of open carry passing in the 84th Legislature, and continue to say we have no political clout while ignoring our achievements. These are also the same groups that have perpetuated the liberal fear mongering by attacking the public display of certain firearms.

Well, it's been 18 months and we're larger than ever. Open carry is a virtue certainty next year. We are heavily involved at both the state and grassroots level in the political game. We were heavily involved in several races around Texas that got us pro-2A candidates in primaries and general.

Charles Cotton is agitated because his and Alice Tripp's attempts to bully me and our members didn't work. It seems obvious the NRA/TSRA is dependent upon licensing away your gun rights because many states use their training and certification efforts in the CHL process.

When was the last time you heard the NRA mention "constitutional carry" as an agenda of theirs? If this legislation is already submitted, why wouldn't the NRA throw its weight behind it? And why is, yet again, the NRA attacking pro -2A groups who are (successfully) fighting to bring more gun rights to Texas? In fact, why hasn't either organization submitted such legislation themselves? Instead, they preemptively attack us for daring not to budge on our rights.

I'm an Endowment Life and Golden Eagles member of the NRA, so I'm not speaking from the outside here. I've paid my dues, so to speak. I've given thousands of dollars to the NRA over just the past two years, much more over my life. What did the NRA ever accomplish to bring open carry to Texas before we came along? Nothing. Over the past 20 years, how many bills has the NRA sponsored to lower the cost of the CHL, make it easier to obtain, or even do away with it as a requirement altogether? I'm sure there are some here and there, but if they have such clout, where are the results?

I learned pretty quickly that my money is best served supporting a national organization that isn't interested in licensing my rights away - National Association for Gun Rights. What Cotton here won't admit is that homegrown groups like Open Carry Texas, Texas Carry and Come and Take It Texas are the reason we will get open carry next year. The NRA/TSRA have done nothing but ride our coattails and try to undermine our efforts. They've virtually demanded that we stop exercising our rights because the gun control extremists weren't happy with such blatant exercising of a right. Instead of standing up to them, they stood against law abiding gun owners. It's threatening to the gunopoly to have these upstarts showing them up. We aren't multi million dollar corporations, we're member led.

Now that the pissing contest is out of the way, let's talk open carry. The FACT is that five states already have constitutional carry and it benefits those states. 31 states have UNLICENSED open carry and it isn't a problem. There is absolutely NO REASON why Texas needs to go to licensed open carry. None.

Our more than 30,000 members have worked the streets for pro gun candidates, walked thousands of miles handing out literature, spoken at hundreds of tea party and civic events, marched in parades, contacted leaders in Texas politics, held more than 2000 open carry events, secured support from hundreds of open carry friendly businesses across the state, worked tirelessly with law enforcement, and made clear all along we won't accept having our rights legislated away while standing first on our rights as protected in our state and federal constitutions.

Why should we beg for the right to carry a handgun openly with a license when we've spent the past 18 months carrying rifles and black powder revolvers (something else both the NRA and TSRA tried to stop us from doing) openly without a license. We've proven that open carry doesn't cause crime, doesn't hurt people, and can be done responsibly. No one was hurt, shot, raped, assaulted, maimed, or killed.

It's a sad day that Charles Cotton continues his attacks on our members without cause. He must be getting desperate and bitterly clinging to his relevance. Perhaps he should focus more on unity and gun rights and less on splintering gun owners.

CJ Grisham
Open Carry Texas

CJ, Assuming that you will win is a very easy step to start you down the path of defeat. You attack Charles Cotton by name, yet he specifically listed your (OCT/NAGR') bill, HB195, on the Texas Firearms Coalition page with the position to support it. I think you have a problem that all the other OC efforts in the past have suffered from here in Texas. That problem is that if someone/something does not agree 100% with you then they are against you, antigun, or some such. Let me make a suggestion, hedge your bets. Some people would say "don't put all your eggs in one basket" and thats the same thing here. I see problems with your HB195, such as it having 7 sections numbered 1 through 6 but I will still support it, as well as HB164, and other OC bills that get filed and do not hurt our efforts to advance the ball. The reason I will support all those bills is in case HB195 does not make it, then we still have options to move the ball forward. You sir need to pull your head out of whatever hole you have it in that serves as an echo chamber and look at reality. There are multiple bills that give us multiple options and you want to focus on just one, if it fails you will have failed. The all or nothing and the with us or against us attitudes do not help you make friends, or get things done. So when you make comments about the NRA/TSRA attacking you keep in mind that you are attacking them every bit as much if not more so.

For those who are new to this CJ and I really do not get along, this has not always been the case but it is the situation now.

[C-dub]

CJ Grisham
Open Carry Texas

Blah blah blah.

BTW, thanks for getting more businesses to put up more 30.06 signs, NOT.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Sigh. More NRA attacks on Texas pro-gun groups. I realize the NRA/TSRA cabal probably finds us threatening as a Texas gun rights organization (I don't speak for OCTC, not affiliated with Open Carry Texas) because it threatens their stranglehold on power. After all, these are the same organizations that said we wouldn't last six months, we were hurting any chance of open carry passing in the 84th Legislature, and continue to say we have no political clout while ignoring our achievements. These are also the same groups that have perpetuated the liberal fear mongering by attacking the public display of certain firearms.

Well, it's been 18 months and we're larger than ever. Open carry is a virtue certainty next year. We are heavily involved at both the state and grassroots level in the political game. We were heavily involved in several races around Texas that got us pro-2A candidates in primaries and general.

Charles Cotton is agitated because his and Alice Tripp's attempts to bully me and our members didn't work. It seems obvious the NRA/TSRA is dependent upon licensing away your gun rights because many states use their training and certification efforts in the CHL process.

When was the last time you heard the NRA mention "constitutional carry" as an agenda of theirs? If this legislation is already submitted, why wouldn't the NRA throw its weight behind it? And why is, yet again, the NRA attacking pro -2A groups who are (successfully) fighting to bring more gun rights to Texas? In fact, why hasn't either organization submitted such legislation themselves? Instead, they preemptively attack us for daring not to budge on our rights.

I'm an Endowment Life and Golden Eagles member of the NRA, so I'm not speaking from the outside here. I've paid my dues, so to speak. I've given thousands of dollars to the NRA over just the past two years, much more over my life. What did the NRA ever accomplish to bring open carry to Texas before we came along? Nothing. Over the past 20 years, how many bills has the NRA sponsored to lower the cost of the CHL, make it easier to obtain, or even do away with it as a requirement altogether? I'm sure there are some here and there, but if they have such clout, where are the results?

I learned pretty quickly that my money is best served supporting a national organization that isn't interested in licensing my rights away - National Association for Gun Rights. What Cotton here won't admit is that homegrown groups like Open Carry Texas, Texas Carry and Come and Take It Texas are the reason we will get open carry next year. The NRA/TSRA have done nothing but ride our coattails and try to undermine our efforts. They've virtually demanded that we stop exercising our rights because the gun control extremists weren't happy with such blatant exercising of a right. Instead of standing up to them, they stood against law abiding gun owners. It's threatening to the gunopoly to have these upstarts showing them up. We aren't multi million dollar corporations, we're member led.

Now that the pissing contest is out of the way, let's talk open carry. The FACT is that five states already have constitutional carry and it benefits those states. 31 states have UNLICENSED open carry and it isn't a problem. There is absolutely NO REASON why Texas needs to go to licensed open carry. None.

Our more than 30,000 members have worked the streets for pro gun candidates, walked thousands of miles handing out literature, spoken at hundreds of tea party and civic events, marched in parades, contacted leaders in Texas politics, held more than 2000 open carry events, secured support from hundreds of open carry friendly businesses across the state, worked tirelessly with law enforcement, and made clear all along we won't accept having our rights legislated away while standing first on our rights as protected in our state and federal constitutions.

Why should we beg for the right to carry a handgun openly with a license when we've spent the past 18 months carrying rifles and black powder revolvers (something else both the NRA and TSRA tried to stop us from doing) openly without a license. We've proven that open carry doesn't cause crime, doesn't hurt people, and can be done responsibly. No one was hurt, shot, raped, assaulted, maimed, or killed.

It's a sad day that Charles Cotton continues his attacks on our members without cause. He must be getting desperate and bitterly clinging to his relevance. Perhaps he should focus more on unity and gun rights and less on splintering gun owners.

CJ Grisham
Open Carry Texas

I could respond to all of the lies you have posted here, but I'll save time by noting that you and OCT have aligned yourselves with Dudley Moore's National Association of Gun Rights (NAGR). NAGR has been been condemned by the NRA, GOA, SAF, Students for Concealed Carry and numerous other gun rights organizations. That speaks volumes about your organization.

NRA riding OCY coattails? You truly are delusional. Open-carry has a chance to pass, but it will be in spite of you and your organization. All people have to do to see how you have changed your story and goals is to listed on the Open Carry Report podcast and the recording of our discussion on Gun Talk Radio.

Read my first post in this thread and you will see that I'm calling for support of HB195 and I'm also calling for support of other open-carry bills. I'm calling for respectful contact with legislators. What do you do; you rant and rave for 69 minutes on your latest podcast calling legislators "the laziest people on earth!" That's just brilliant CJ, absolutely brilliant. Then you ask people to call their Representatives, ask then about HB195 and surreptitiously record the conversation, then email it to you so you can use the recording against the Representative. While this is not unlawful, it's certainly underhanded and unethical. Do you really think that a person and/or organization that will stoop to such despicable tactics will ever have influence in the political or legislative arenas? This is a good example why open-carry will pass in spite of you and OCT, not because of you.

Here's a tip, before doing your next podcast, be sure to learn what Texas gun laws really are; this isn't an area where you should wing it. You stated so many laws incorrectly that was truly embarrassed for you.

BTW, before posting again, read our rules. I don't want you complaining about your posts being deleted. Oh yeah, your user name is now your real name. You've made yourself a public figure, you've attacked me, the NRA and the TSRA, and you're going to do it in your own name.

Chas.

[RoyGBiv]

Sigh. More NRA attacks on Texas pro-gun groups.

All of us want unlicensed carry, both concealed and open. Your actions have alienated the general public and more business have posted 30.06 as a direct result of your groups actions. You've made it harder to pass Constitutional Carry or open carry.

You're entitled to your contrary opinions, but your fooling yourself if you think your actions are a net positive for changing the law in favor of constitutional carry.

I want Constitutional Carry. I hope you can see your way to using less in your face tactics. The legislation is filed. Giving people reason to ask their legislators to vote against it is bad tactics.

[Miguel Reynaga]

So far there are three bills introduced for the House but more are to come. I will be communicating with my local rep this coming week. He's assured me he is submitting something similar to HB195.
Why is it so hard to understand that we already HAVE this right, guaranteed to us by BIRTH. Why must we be licensed to use it. You do NOT need a license to speak freely or write freely. You don't need a license to operate this forum. You don't need a license to deny being illegally searched or to refuse to answer questions in court. So WHY should I need a license for my 2nd amendment rights?
For those with CHL let them keep it, they can hide all they want but should they choose not to hide then they can do so freely.
If you surrender your rights, even a little, then you don't deserve them.

[Valente Gonzalez]

Charles,
Legislators work for us there is a difference between a politician giving you access (a pat on the head) and actual action (doing what you want). We would not even be having a conversation about Open Carry if it had not been for Open Carry Groups. You do not see that this work that is being done has taken us farther than anyone could have ever imagined. There was no game plan working on the defense. My experience with the NRA is that the game plan is to defend.

We don't want access Charles, we want action OCT OCTC and other Open Carry groups are looking for a victory. It has been pretty hard carrying a rifle around all this time (2 years). I reached out to you since you and I live close, I went back to see if you were still on my friends list. I don't know when you decided I was no longer worth having on your friends list however I do still want to make the most of any effort we can have to get HB195 passed.

I read that you support HB195 but this is a Texas CHL forum. You know that means we are walking into the lions den here, I figure this is a very pro license group and HB195 is not pro license, it is there but only for reciprocity.

What we are for is liberty, you know like what is identified in the Constitution of the United States. It is not so hard to understand that we have the opportunity to do something truly spectacular in this legislative session. (Granted Joe Strauss has to go).

Look what I want is to take a little more back from what ever the Government is withholding from me. If you are on-board then I am on-board.

What will you do to support the cause of liberty and constitutional carry? Are you working on the Offence going in to get the most you can while you can, or are you still transitioning from Defense where the government is telling you what you can and cannot do? The NRA has been giving political pleasure to these politicians long enough to expect some action, some real concrete action has to take place. All too often I heard people stop voting because they lose faith and they say the republicans and the democrats are the same. Well they are the same because we let them be the same.

Charles at the end of the day they are our employees, the Reps are our employees and what do you do if they don't do what you want? You fire them or make them wish that they had another job.

Charles the youth is attracted to our Open Carry walks the NRA is losing out on this.

Change; Charles it is the only constant, Change is what you are seeing and the longer you do not embrace it the harder it will be to catch up later.

Valente Gonzalez
OCT Houston Admin