Pulled Over by DPS

[Excaliber]

...the word you're contesting is "normal"...and you're saying that because a lot of folks like to speed much over the limit, that that's normal? nope...not buying that argument...there've been too many times I've pulled a speeder out of traffic and his argument was that "everyone else" was speeding just as much or more than he was...that doesn't make it normal...that doesn't make it right....and the judge has told more than one of them that no matter what someone else was doing...he was breaking the law....the point was not missed...there just is no reasonable way to justify the "right" of someone to demand the law-abiding to move out of their way so that they can break the law more flagrantly...that's what's gotten this country into the mess we're in...

I didn't say you weren't breaking the law if you are speeding. That section refers to the speed traffic is moving and never implies anything about the posted limit. If you notice, the word 'conditions' is placed in there. So, let's take an example, it is a little foggy and you don't feel it is safe to drive over 35 in a posted 55 MPH zone. While it may not be, you are to pull over to the right and allow faster traffic (who want to drive 40) to pass you. You are NOT the person who can enforce this at that point, you are just another driver, so you are not the one who dictates who can drive faster than you or not.

Now, on the speeding, who is to say by blocking that lane and not allowing someone to go a little over the speed limit safely, that you are not hindering them getting to the hospital due to an emergency (wife delivering baby, kid started having severe asthma attack in the car and hospital is 1 mile up road, etc.) There CAN be reasons to speed and it is not your job as a civilian (or retired LEO) to slow them down.

I am in agreement with Keith here. Acting as a rolling roadblock for someone who wants to go faster for whatever reason is unwise at best and dangerous at worst. It may well result in maneuvering by one or both of you that leads to a wreck, for which you would likely be found partially at fault. If injury or death was involved, criminal charges may be brought and the consequences could be severe.

If you believe another driver is operating unsafely and / or unlawfully, the prudent action would be to notify the law enforcement agency in that jurisdiction and leave further action up to them.

[speedsix]

Its possible to be redundant and obtuse. You are not even trying to see the other viewpoints, you just keep stating how yours is correct when an argument is made.

Its OK to say "I don't like speeders, so I am going to attempt to slow them down by driving in the left lane"

That would negate any further arguments these folks can make against you. You aren't doing it because it is legal, you are doing it because you want to. Folks can argue that something is legal or illegal all day, its hard to argue with someone that says "I just wanna"

...I'm not obtuse...just obese...I see your differing viewpoints...but the arguments you offer have either been in error or not pertinent to the situation I described...the interpretations done to try to make the one law apply to what I'm talking about aren't correct...why should I change my opinion when the debate hasn't produced any new and correcting information?

I have NOT said "Its OK to say "I don't like speeders, so I am going to attempt to slow them down by driving in the left lane" ...those are YOUR words...I simply said I won't give up my rightful place so that they can accomplish what they want...totally different...driving within the law and refusing to be bullied out of a lane I have right to be in is not acting against anyone, provoking anyone, or acting as a "rolling roadblock"...I can't comprehend why you think I should just give them what they want...when they're the one breaking the law...and I'm just minding my own business...

...I'm not the one "doing" anything...as Keith B said, it's not my job to MAKE someone do anything...but it's not my responsibility to cave in and yield to their wishes, either...and yield my rightful space just because they want more than the law allows...follow that same line of thinking and you'll be handing over your wallet in an alley just because it's nice...traffic was designed to flow smoothly by all parties on the road following the rules...and you're saying that the right thing to do is to give up my rights to accommodate the ones who want to break the rules...where's the logic in that argument???
...the argument's not progressing very well...I'm done unless someone shows me the law that says I'm wrong...if there is one...then I need to change...till then...no point in continuing...you're just mad because I won't agree...and I'm not changing your minds, either....let it go and move on...

[Scott in Houston]

And that is why different speeds are well managed in Germany on the autobahn. Drive right is strictly enforced as it should be here. I don't know how many times on the Bush turnpike I have to move all the way to the right lane to pass the idiots who aren't even doing the speed limit (70).

I really wish the troopers would write them up.

I really love me some autobahn!!

Words cannot express how awesome it is to drive it! Drivers over there have a totally different mindset, at least from my personal experience. My experience was that those that wanted to go slow kept right (also those that were mandated, in certain sections, to do that - ie - trucks), those that were cruising along kept in the middle, those that were hauling were in the left lane and then would move one lane over after passing, and stay there again until passing.

You will be ticketed very quickly for driving in the left lane while not overtaking someone. It's ticketed like speeding is here.

[Barbi Q]

You will be ticketed very quickly for driving in the left lane while not overtaking someone. It's ticketed like speeding is here.

If traffic enforcement in the USA was about safety, it would be ticketed like speeding over here too. There would also be more enforcement of lane changes and turns without signaling, swerving across multiple lanes of traffic, stopping or slowing radically in a travel lane to try to force their way in front of a line of non-sociopathic drivers who are lined up in the exit lane, etc.

[Dagnabitblah]

And that is why different speeds are well managed in Germany on the autobahn. Drive right is strictly enforced as it should be here. I don't know how many times on the Bush turnpike I have to move all the way to the right lane to pass the idiots who aren't even doing the speed limit (70).

I really wish the troopers would write them up.

I really love me some autobahn!!

Words cannot express how awesome it is to drive it! Drivers over there have a totally different mindset, at least from my personal experience. My experience was that those that wanted to go slow kept right (also those that were mandated, in certain sections, to do that - ie - trucks), those that were cruising along kept in the middle, those that were hauling were in the left lane and then would move one lane over after passing, and stay there again until passing.

You will be ticketed very quickly for driving in the left lane while not overtaking someone. It's ticketed like speeding is here.

I have seen this firsthand actually. I cannot remember the exact wording, but the citation was for creating a hazard by not allowing faster traffic to pass on the left as required by State law. Granted the "normal" part is open to somewhat interpretation, but the left-side passing is not. We were going about 5mph over, couple of cars behind us. We asked about those speeding cars and the comment was along the lines of "we'll get them next time, your creating much more of a hazard". Judge felt the same way, the left-lane passing that we made impossible cost my brother some cash.

[ZeeMan]

On my Blackberry and my wife's, which are always locked and encrypted because they have company data on them, I used the "Owner Information" option to put ICE info on the main screen. I set mine up as:

ICE: wife's name
wife's phone number

and her phone with my info. Emergency responders can see that data without unlocking the phone because it's only displayed on the screen when the phones are locked. PM me if you would like assistance with this.

AWESOME! Just did this to mine and the wife's BB's now just to get her to remember to LOCK it when she is out and about...............

[Keith B]

...the one thing that would change my mind about this is for someone to show me a statute(law) that dictates that I'm wrong to continue driving legally where I have a right to be...and I haven't seen that...feelings and opinions and ideas aside...tell me factually why my opinion is wrong and yours is right...that's winning the argument...

Here is the transportation code. It clearly states you are to drive on the right side of the road UNLESS passing another vehicle or other reason. Period.

(a) An operator on a roadway of sufficient width shall drive on the right
half of the roadway, unless:
(1) the operator is passing another vehicle;
(2) an obstruction necessitates moving the vehicle
left of the center of the roadway and the operator yields the
right-of-way to a vehicle that:
(A) is moving in the proper direction on the
unobstructed portion of the roadway; and
(B) is an immediate hazard;
(3) the operator is on a roadway divided into three
marked lanes for traffic; or
(4) the operator is on a roadway restricted to one-way
traffic.
(b) An operator of a vehicle on a roadway moving more slowly than the normal speed of other vehicles at the time and place under the existing conditions
shall drive in the right-hand lane available for vehicles, or as close as practicable to the
right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, unless the operator is:
(1) passing another vehicle; or
(2) preparing for a left turn at an intersection or
into a private road or driveway.
(c) An operator on a roadway having four or more lanes for
moving vehicles and providing for two-way movement of vehicles may
not drive left of the center line of the roadway except:
(1) as authorized by an official traffic-control
device designating a specified lane to the left side of the center
of the roadway for use by a vehicle not otherwise permitted to use
the lane;
(2) under the conditions described by Subsection
(a)(2); or
(3) in crossing the center line to make a left turn
into or out of an alley, private road, or driveway.

Sections 545.351 and 545.352 deal with Maximum Speed Requirement and Prima Facie Speed Limits respectively, and 545.051 never refers to that section or refers to posted, Prima Facie Speed Limits or Maximum speed.

So, yes, of a person is driving over the speed limit, then they are breaking the law. However, you are breaking the law by driving in the left lane and not moving as far right as you can if you don't meet one of the requirements in 545.051.

Last post on this from me.

[Scott in Houston]

The fact that he is former LEO and never knew this illustrates the entire problem with our system here.
I'm not singling him out, but it's obvious that very few LEO's have any clue about this particular law, and have been solely focused on the revenue generating speeding ticket. I will agree that it can provide a dual service of finding bad guys on the road through a random traffic stop, so it's better than a speed camera, but STILL, if the actual letter of the law was enforced, the roadways would be much more pleasant and you wouldn't have the road rage created by those blocking the left lane to 'teach a lesson'.

[speedsix]

The fact that he is former LEO and never knew this illustrates the entire problem with our system here.
I'm not singling him out, but it's obvious that very few LEO's have any clue about this particular law, and have been solely focused on the revenue generating speeding ticket. I will agree that it can provide a dual service of finding bad guys on the road through a random traffic stop, so it's better than a speed camera, but STILL, if the actual letter of the law was enforced, the roadways would be much more pleasant and you wouldn't have the road rage created by those blocking the left lane to 'teach a lesson'.

...I was never a TEXAS LEO...so it illustrates nothing...sorry...
...my ticket books lasted me over a year, on average...I caught burglars and couldn't care less about "revenue"...
...teaching a lesson never entered my mind...not giving up my rights to a road bully did, however...I care less what he does until he tries to plow me out of his way...

[G26ster]

Here is the transportation code. It clearly states you are to drive on the right side of the road UNLESS passing another vehicle or other reason. Period.

(a) An operator on a roadway of sufficient width shall drive on the right
half of the roadway, unless:
(1) the operator is passing another vehicle;
(2) an obstruction necessitates moving the vehicle
left of the center of the roadway and the operator yields the
right-of-way to a vehicle that:
(A) is moving in the proper direction on the
unobstructed portion of the roadway; and
(B) is an immediate hazard;
(3) the operator is on a roadway divided into three
marked lanes for traffic; or
(4) the operator is on a roadway restricted to one-way
traffic.

(a)(3) above says I can drive in the left lane if the roadway has three marked lanes. That's just about every major roadway in the Metroplex and many other major Texas cities.

[Oldgringo]

by jmra » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:37 am

I've discovered the best way to beat a ticket is to drive the speed limit. After all we are CHL holders - we are law abiding citizens.

Speeding puts everyone at greater risk.

Speeding is extremely selfish - Consider the rest of humanity and quit speeding ...

I'll step off my soapbox, but I'm serious about what I stated.

...selfish is THE word...I did it when I was a kid 'cause I thought I had to...did it when I was a cop cause I HAD to...when I quit, I decided I wasn't going to be in that much of a hurry ever again...so I don't purposely speed...and when I look down and see that I am...there's the brake pedal...my business is NOT more important than others...nor are there lives less important than mine....

The above sums up the question very succintly. If we're not gonna' abide by the traffic laws, what's the big deal with a 30.06 sign or the Post Office, etc?

I'm forever amazed at the number of people who absolutely, positively must get to the next traffic light before I do.
If one's mission, appointment, date or whatever is so important that one be somewhere by date and time certain, is it asking too much for consideration and planning that allows a timely departure without endangering others along the all important mission's route?

[speedsix]

...the one thing that would change my mind about this is for someone to show me a statute(law) that dictates that I'm wrong to continue driving legally where I have a right to be...and I haven't seen that...feelings and opinions and ideas aside...tell me factually why my opinion is wrong and yours is right...that's winning the argument...

Here is the transportation code. It clearly states you are to drive on the right side of the road UNLESS passing another vehicle or other reason. Period.

(a) An operator on a roadway of sufficient width shall drive on the right
half of the roadway, unless:
(1) the operator is passing another vehicle;
(2) an obstruction necessitates moving the vehicle
left of the center of the roadway and the operator yields the
right-of-way to a vehicle that:
(A) is moving in the proper direction on the
unobstructed portion of the roadway; and
(B) is an immediate hazard;
(3) the operator is on a roadway divided into three
marked lanes for traffic; or
(4) the operator is on a roadway restricted to one-way
traffic.
(b) An operator of a vehicle on a roadway moving more slowly than the normal speed of other vehicles at the time and place under the existing conditions
shall drive in the right-hand lane available for vehicles, or as close as practicable to the
right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, unless the operator is:
(1) passing another vehicle; or
(2) preparing for a left turn at an intersection or
into a private road or driveway.
(c) An operator on a roadway having four or more lanes for
moving vehicles and providing for two-way movement of vehicles may
not drive left of the center line of the roadway except:
(1) as authorized by an official traffic-control
device designating a specified lane to the left side of the center
of the roadway for use by a vehicle not otherwise permitted to use
the lane;
(2) under the conditions described by Subsection
(a)(2); or
(3) in crossing the center line to make a left turn
into or out of an alley, private road, or driveway.

Sections 545.351 and 545.352 deal with Maximum Speed Requirement and Prima Facie Speed Limits respectively, and 545.051 never refers to that section or refers to posted, Prima Facie Speed Limits or Maximum speed.

So, yes, of a person is driving over the speed limit, then they are breaking the law. However, you are breaking the law by driving in the left lane and not moving as far right as you can if you don't meet one of the requirements in 545.051.

Last post on this from me.

...I hope not...I'll argue with you some more...you're "quoting" the law...then interpreting it to mean what you say...
all the highlighting notwithstanding...my situation is LAWFUL under (1), (3), and possibly (4)...depending on which road I'm on... and those are the "other reason"s you spoke of. Period.
"... However, you are breaking the law by driving in the left lane and not moving as far right as you can if you don't meet one of the requirements in 545.051." but I DO...two and maybe 3 of them...so why say that?
...the bad thing about written law is that it only says what it says...not what you want it to say...the good thing about it is that it clearly defines what our behavior should (must) be to be in compliance...
...this law just gives me two, sometimes three, reasons I'm right in doing what I described... (b) regarding slower than NORMAL speed still does not apply...normal is the legal norm...

...the whole point of my refusing to give in to what you folks are saying I should and must do, is that this country is full of people who want to tell, shame, coerce, bully, and lecture us into doing things or not doing things that give up our rights UNDER THE LAW...and we're letting them do it...and we've given up a LOT doing that...what lane we drive in is just one example...we should do what the LAW says...to the letter...but should not let anyone wear us down into giving up our place in line, our rights, just because they want it...that's the big picture here...
...get as torqued as you want to...but PROVE your argument if you want someone to change their ways...with facts...in this case...what does the law say?
...I'm just a fat old jerk on a forum...what if your wife comes home tonigtht with a story that matches my post? You really think she's going to agree with you? Your daughter? that's FAIR, Daddy?...if we won't stand up for our right to live within the law and refuse to be pushed around by those who want to break it at our expense...is that wrong???

[pbwalker]

speedsix - can you ease up on the ellipses? I'm having a hard time reading your posts and find myself just skipping over them.

I only see one person getting torqued here.

And Keith was a LEO, so I take his interpretation of the law to be more in-line with what it is as opposed to (paraphrasing Gigag...another LEO) 'jailhouse law'

[speedsix]

a LEO or former LEO knows that the law says what it means and doesn't need anyone to "interpret" it unless it's a court
there's a big difference between a "jailhouse" lawyer and someone reading the law no matter whether it's an LEO, a former LEO, or another former LEO you'd be surprised at how often we disagree vociferously kinda like lawyers

I'm not torqued but I'm not convinced, either, and I am only using the law to support my view what it SAYS not what I want it to say

I guess nothing is served by continuing if my point's not clear now it never will be

[Oldgringo]

Speed limits are for sissies?