Encounter with Round Rock PD

[puma guy]

Social Security # ? Thats insane, what on earth would they need that for? They gona run your credit? No way id give it to 'em. Id tell him no and ask for a lawyer if he kept badgering me. Ive herd about dps doin this in Arizona too. I wonder whats goin on ?

Just a quick reminder that Texas and Arizona may have different laws. The feds have allowed states to require SSN for dl's, and I do not know if that applies to during a traffic stop or not. I do know Texas laws do not require it, but I am not sure I would extend that to Arizona. I would also probably refuse to provide it there, but I recognize it may mean a trip to jail when I do.

My last renewal notice specified I would have to bring my SS card and I had to get a replacement card before I went in for renewal. When I went to the DPS office I was told I didn't need it since I was already in the system. I don't ever remember giving it to them. I got my TDL when I was 14 and have never had to provide SSN on renewal. Somehow I'm in the system and linked up to my DL. No matter I'm still not giving it the anyone.

[McKnife]

The first and second time I was asked to provide my Social Security # to police, I told them no. They usually get agitated and lie to me by saying it's required, but quit prodding after I say no again.

The third time I was asked to provide my SS#, I decided to play dumb. I simply said "I don't remember."
The cop looked at me funny and asked why I can't remember it... I just said "I'm nervous." He said "I'll just go look it up on my computer."

I plan on trying that answer on all questions that aren't required by law, such as:

1) Where you coming' from?
2) Where ya headed?
3) What's in the trunk?
4) What's you SS#?
5) Where do you work?
6) What's you phone number?

[PvilleStang]

He NEVER got my SSN, I refused three times and he finally let it be. His Lt. said it was a valid request because it was on the ticket form. And man, I disappear for softball tonight, and 13 responses, WOW!

I previously forgot to mention, I came in earlier to have the ticket dismissed, and the ticket was not in the system two days later, while my PD usually has all tickets entered into the system by the end of shift. Per my Sergeant's request, I requested the DVR footage from RRPD, but was told it would be a 7-14 day delay for open records request, beyond the point where I could have it dismissed with a small 10-20 dollar fine. I don't want to go to court, but I don't want to give this supposed conservative town money to support their witch hunts. And I refer to their pulling people over with FLP and tail light violations looking for bigger issues as the witch hunt (our PD has an officer who often pulls over people for burnt out tail lights looking for warrants, drugs, etc.).

Anyways, thanks all who have thrown in their two cents.

P.S.

[gigag04]

And I refer to their pulling people over with FLP and tail light violations looking for bigger issues as the witch hunt (our PD has an officer who often pulls over people for burnt out tail lights looking for warrants, drugs, etc.).

Solid, Supreme Court supported, police work. I may be misreading your tone, but the majority of your post feels like you are some how above traffic enforcement, or the law in general. Again - the misunderstanding may be on my end. If not, I'd be curious as to why the bad taste in your mouth for LE.

[carlson1]

Also be careful not to bash LEO's.

[PvilleStang]

I work with them for a living. Nothing against y'all. It just irritates me that Round Rock feels they don't need to comply with policies that most other departments set for the protection of their officers (unmarked traffic enforcement). That and their Lt. left a horrible impression of the PD, which I might mention I used to work with in the early 2000's. Several of their officers are great people, and I have nothing to say but great things about them. But the attitude the lieutenant gave today has taken them down a solid peg or two.

By all means, I don't mean to come off as bashing LEO's. God bless y'all, I work with y'all and wouldn't want to do half the things y'all get stuck doing. That being said, find the people who are solid threats to your community (speeders, aggressive drivers, Oklahomans) and don't be out just to earn the city a dollar. Protect and serve, that's the motto.

[Hoi Polloi]

1) Where you coming' from?
2) Where ya headed?
3) What's in the trunk?

Answering these honestly got me out of a ticket I deserved. I thought the speed limit was 45 in a town I was passing through on a daytrip, passed an officer going the opposite direction and looked him in the eye and smiled and about 1/2 a second later I saw the posted speed limit sign. He turned around and pulled me over and wanted to know where I was going and what I was doing and why I was speeding. I told him the truth on each and he gave me a warning. And he was so super polite, too! I was so grateful that I pray for him to this day.

[gigag04]

By all means, I don't mean to come off as bashing LEO's. God bless y'all, I work with y'all and wouldn't want to do half the things y'all get stuck doing. That being said, find the people who are solid threats to your community (speeders, aggressive drivers, Oklahomans) and don't be out just to earn the city a dollar. Protect and serve, that's the motto.

Thanks! However, will all due respect, until you actually get training, done the job and made arrests, please don't give instructions on LEOs as to how to do their jobs.

Here are some lesser known violations that I've stopped for and found burglars/dope/stolen property/felony warrants/drunks/Driver's w/o license, insurance:
-wide right turn
-fail to signal within 100 ft of turning
-fail to stop at designated stop point
-white light to the rear (usually cargo light on pickup)
-LP light, tail light, brake light, headlight, etc
-obscured LP
-no front LP


I fully believe that apprehending the above people (burglars etc) is doing good police work and keeping the community safe. Many times when I use one these pretextual stops the vehicle has already gotten my attention.

[steveincowtown]

Many times when I use one these pretextual stops the vehicle has already gotten my attention.

Gigag04, if I am interpreting this wrong I apologize in advance, but when I read what you posted here it sure sounds like "The vehicle got my attention so I found a reason to pull it over." If this is truly the case I that is somewhat disturbing to me.

[flintknapper]

By all means, I don't mean to come off as bashing LEO's. God bless y'all, I work with y'all and wouldn't want to do half the things y'all get stuck doing. That being said, find the people who are solid threats to your community (speeders, aggressive drivers, Oklahomans) and don't be out just to earn the city a dollar. Protect and serve, that's the motto.

Thanks! However, will all due respect, until you actually get training, done the job and made arrests, please don't give instructions on LEOs as to how to do their jobs.

Here are some lesser known violations that I've stopped for and found burglars/dope/stolen property/felony warrants/drunks/Driver's w/o license, insurance:
-wide right turn
-fail to signal within 100 ft of turning
-fail to stop at designated stop point
-white light to the rear (usually cargo light on pickup)
-LP light, tail light, brake light, headlight, etc
-obscured LP
-no front LP


I fully believe that apprehending the above people (burglars etc) is doing good police work and keeping the community safe. Many times when I use one these pretextual stops the vehicle has already gotten my attention.

Percentages?

[jbirds1210]

Many times when I use one these pretextual stops the vehicle has already gotten my attention.

Gigag04, if I am interpreting this wrong I apologize in advance, but when I read what you posted here it sure sounds like "The vehicle got my attention so I found a reason to pull it over." If this is truly the case I that is somewhat disturbing to me.

Whren v. United States

A wiki link for the "nutshell" version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whren_v._United_States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pretext stops can be effective when used properly and are perfectly legal.

Jason

[Thomas]

Here are some lesser known violations that I've stopped for and found burglars/dope/stolen property/felony warrants/drunks/Driver's w/o license, insurance:
...
-no front LP

I thought front license plates were not required. I do have a front license plate because my car has a spot for it and I received two plates, but there are a lot of cars that don't have spots for it.

[steveincowtown]

Pretext stops can be effective when used properly and are perfectly legal.

I am 100% in agreement that Pretext stops can lead to further results and can be a good thing. What I was questioning is that if an LEO says that a vehicle got his attention, and then he decided on what to stop it for, I think that is disturbing.

In other words, if an officer see me take a wide right turn at 2:30AM at the corner after just leaving a bar. That seems like a pretextual stop.

If an officer sees that I have a "TSRA" sticker in the window that "catches his attention" and he then follows me and looks a reason to stop me...that is what I find disturbing.

[gringop]

Am I understanding this correctly?

The OP doesn't like these policies of the RRPD:
Unmarked car.
Did not have/use the kind of lighting he wanted.
Did not have dash cam running for his expired sticker stop.
Took too long to run his DL
Asked for his SS.

OP goes to complain to RRPD LT.
LT mentions something about laws.
OP knows that he is guilty of driving with an expired Inspection sticker.
OP asks for dash cam footage but is disappointed that it will take him too long to get it and will require him to pay the full fine, which he owes, instead of the minimal fee that the city generously will accept to encourage inspection compliance.

OP comes here to complain.

I'm not feeling any sympathy.

Gringop

[gigag04]

Pretext stops can be effective when used properly and are perfectly legal.

I am 100% in agreement that Pretext stops can lead to further results and can be a good thing. What I was questioning is that if an LEO says that a vehicle got his attention, and then he decided on what to stop it for, I think that is disturbing.

In other words, if an officer see me take a wide right turn at 2:30AM at the corner after just leaving a bar. That seems like a pretextual stop.

If an officer sees that I have a "TSRA" sticker in the window that "catches his attention" and he then follows me and looks a reason to stop me...that is what I find disturbing.

Leaving a known crackhouse, leaving a bar, picking up a prostitute, creeping through a neighborhood, I know the vehicle, you name it...all of these things catch my attention.

Most of the people I work with wouldn't know a TSRA sticker if I put on on their work locker.

Percentages?

I'd say 25-40%. It's easy to find people with no/suspended license or no insurance. Warrants are fairly common too. If it's a "slow" night, I can make upwards of 12 stops for a shift. This will usually yield at least 2-3 insurance violations, and an arrest or 2. I am fairly selective on where and which cars I run traffic on. I like to get into drunks, dope, and burglars so I try and work for indicators of such activity.