First LEO Encounter - Friendswood, TX

[speedsix]

The one thing that I learned during this encounter is that our Law Enforcement Brothers and Sisters understand that we are on their side and they see us as an asset. I have seen the horrible Dash Cam videos of incidents where LEO's are attacked while pullling someone over. I drive frequently for travel and always keep a sharp lookout for LEOS's who have pulled someone over. When I drive past, I try to observe what is taking place. I am committed to covering their backs if there is ever an incident and I am close enough to assist.

God Bless & Protect our Law Enforcement Officers!

A noble sentiment, and one that may well get you shot by the officer who is in trouble, or shot by his backup brother officers who are on their way to the scene. If I were you, I would work out WELL in advance exactly how you would insert yourself into such a situation without alarming the cop and bringing bad juju down on your own head despite your best intentions.

Look, I'm not knocking how you feel about it, and I think that most of us here have it at least in our hearts to want to be helpful in such a situation if we could do so without making things worse either for the cop or for ourselves, but your CHL is not a batman license. You are probably far more useful if you take a position behind cover (not concealment) and help with communications by calling 911 and providing them with an independent witness as to what is happening, and to whom. Only involve yourself as a shooter, or as a physical aggressor if you have no other alternative to save your own life, or if the officer in question ASKS for your help, or he's down and out of the fight and about to be killed. I'm betting that most of them won't ask, because it is not in their nature to drag citizens into danger, and doing so is neither in their job descriptions nor in their department policies.

Just my 2¢.

...I personally know two officers who are alive today because a citizen made the decision to step up with a gun and stop a BG:one BG who had disarmed the officer and had his own gun to his head cocked and about to shoot him; one, a lady who maced a carney who had a gun to the officer's head(he'd left his gun in the car... sometimes it goes real well...there's a lot to be considered quickly to make the right decision...don't let anyone belittle your willingness to help, but don't jump in without knowing A LOT about what's really going on and what's wise IN THAT SITUATION...

...it is in state law that a LEO can direct a citizen to become involved...more often, the officer isn't able to ask...he's too busy trying to stay alive...I wouldn't ask him to wait for his backup...anymore than I'd wait for him to get there if I needed help...

[matriculated]

...I personally know two officers who are alive today because a citizen made the decision to step up with a gun and stop a BG:one BG who had disarmed the officer and had his own gun to his head cocked and about to shoot him; one, a lady who maced a carney who had a gun to the officer's head(he'd left his gun in the car... sometimes it goes real well...there's a lot to be considered quickly to make the right decision...don't let anyone belittle your willingness to help, but don't jump in without knowing A LOT about what's really going on and what's wise IN THAT SITUATION...

...it is in state law that a LEO can direct a citizen to become involved...more often, the officer isn't able to ask...he's too busy trying to stay alive...I wouldn't ask him to wait for his backup...anymore than I'd wait for him to get there if I needed help...

I would step in and help an officer in trouble. BUT, and this is a major "but," unless it was an immediate life-or-death situation for the officer, before I made any physical contact with anybody, I would make sure to utter the words: "Officer, do you want me to help you?" Once I hear a "yes," it's game on.

[Jumping Frog]

...I personally know two officers who are alive today because a citizen made the decision to step up with a gun and stop a BG:

I'm sure if we asked Harris County Deputy Frank Flores if he was glad that Travis Dean Neel stepped in and saved his life, there would be a look of startled incomprehension, as if anyone could ask such a stupid question . . .

BTW, for people wondering whether they really need a backup magazine for that 6-shot pocket pistol, Mr. Neel fired almost 40 rounds while saving Officer Flores. Just something to think about . . .

[GlennGAH]

This is a great forum and I'm glad I joined!

[Tregs]

A front license plate is definitely required. I was pulled over south of Texarkana last weekend by Highway Patrol. I showed him TDL/CHL, he ran me through the system, Issued me a warning, then told me to have a nice day. Very nice guy.

[Superman]

The only thing I do differently is have my DL and CHL in my fingers as I hold the steering wheel. When officer sees CHL, they will ask if you are carrying. I know that you don't have to show CHL until asked but this saves me from having to say "I got a gun".

I wait to reach for ANYTHING (except turn on overhead light, even then I turn it on as I'm pulling over) until the officer is at my window and he can watch everything I do. It makes them nervous to see someone fussing around in their vehicle while they are walking up. Even if it's just to pull out your wallet to get your DL and CHL ready in hand... you could be pulling out something to kill them with just as easily. I guarantee the officer would rather spend the extra 60 seconds to have you get our ID's out while he is standing there.

It's a small thing, but I do whatever I can to minimize their anxiety of walking up to someone they just pulled over.

[danpaw]

Front plate is required in Texas. From what my Corvette owner friends tell me it's almost always DPS that makes an issue of it though.

[tomtexan]

Front plate is required in Texas. From what my Corvette owner friends tell me it's almost always DPS that makes an issue of it though.

It's the "key" to get in.

[terryg]

The only thing I do differently is have my DL and CHL in my fingers as I hold the steering wheel. When officer sees CHL, they will ask if you are carrying. I know that you don't have to show CHL until asked but this saves me from having to say "I got a gun".

I wait to reach for ANYTHING (except turn on overhead light, even then I turn it on as I'm pulling over) until the officer is at my window and he can watch everything I do. It makes them nervous to see someone fussing around in their vehicle while they are walking up. Even if it's just to pull out your wallet to get your DL and CHL ready in hand... you could be pulling out something to kill them with just as easily. I guarantee the officer would rather spend the extra 60 seconds to have you get our ID's out while he is standing there.

It's a small thing, but I do whatever I can to minimize their anxiety of walking up to someone they just pulled over.

I don't think the answer is that clear cut. Two scenarios:

1. You fidget, including leaning over, to get your wallet and insurance out after you have stopped but before they have left their vehicle. So long before they even approach the vehicle, your cabin light is on and your hands are in plain view on top of the steering wheel. You have all required documentation on the dash ready to go.

or

2. Your hands are on the steering wheel when they arrive and you politely let them know you have a CHL and are armed. You must then, while they are standing there, lean forward and reach past your belt to retrieve your wallet and/or reach into the glove-box for the insurance card. Your belt and your glove box are the two most likely places for a weapon and you must now reach past one or both of them.

I can see positive and negative aspects of both tactics and I have heard both 'preached' many times. I lean toward the first myself. But I am not sure that there is a definitive answer.

[gigag04]

CHL is NOT tied to the car's license plate. Only pops up when a person is checked. It is entered in TCIC.

Front plate is still required.

[Superman]

The only thing I do differently is have my DL and CHL in my fingers as I hold the steering wheel. When officer sees CHL, they will ask if you are carrying. I know that you don't have to show CHL until asked but this saves me from having to say "I got a gun".

I wait to reach for ANYTHING (except turn on overhead light, even then I turn it on as I'm pulling over) until the officer is at my window and he can watch everything I do. It makes them nervous to see someone fussing around in their vehicle while they are walking up. Even if it's just to pull out your wallet to get your DL and CHL ready in hand... you could be pulling out something to kill them with just as easily. I guarantee the officer would rather spend the extra 60 seconds to have you get our ID's out while he is standing there.

It's a small thing, but I do whatever I can to minimize their anxiety of walking up to someone they just pulled over.

I don't think the answer is that clear cut. Two scenarios:

1. You fidget, including leaning over, to get your wallet and insurance out after you have stopped but before they have left their vehicle. So long before they even approach the vehicle, your cabin light is on and your hands are in plain view on top of the steering wheel. You have all required documentation on the dash ready to go.

or

2. Your hands are on the steering wheel when they arrive and you politely let them know you have a CHL and are armed. You must then, while they are standing there, lean forward and reach past your belt to retrieve your wallet and/or reach into the glove-box for the insurance card. Your belt and your glove box are the two most likely places for a weapon and you must now reach past one or both of them.

I can see positive and negative aspects of both tactics and I have heard both 'preached' many times. I lean toward the first myself. But I am not sure that there is a definitive answer.

Putting myself in the officers shoes, even in your #1, if I'm walking up to a vehicle and see someone fidgeting around, my brain could go the route that maybe you're trying to hide drugs or something else that's illegal before I get there.

Again, putting myself in the officers shoes for your #2, even if I pull over a CHL holder, I'd still rather be able to clearly watch everything as I'm standing by the window. At least then I can see everything happening as it happens and be "more prepared" rather than "be surprised". Better have him reach for the gun in the glove box while I'm standing there watching (and maybe see it as soon as it's opened) than see someone reach into their glove box and me not know what they pulled out until I get to the window...

Best thing to do is ask. I've yet to have an LEO tell me they'd prefer I have everything ready by the time they get to the window. The consensus I get is they prefer to be at the window before you do anything. Actually, I guess we could start a survey...I'll do that so this thread isn't hijacked

[The Annoyed Man]

The one thing that I learned during this encounter is that our Law Enforcement Brothers and Sisters understand that we are on their side and they see us as an asset. I have seen the horrible Dash Cam videos of incidents where LEO's are attacked while pullling someone over. I drive frequently for travel and always keep a sharp lookout for LEOS's who have pulled someone over. When I drive past, I try to observe what is taking place. I am committed to covering their backs if there is ever an incident and I am close enough to assist.

God Bless & Protect our Law Enforcement Officers!

A noble sentiment, and one that may well get you shot by the officer who is in trouble, or shot by his backup brother officers who are on their way to the scene. If I were you, I would work out WELL in advance exactly how you would insert yourself into such a situation without alarming the cop and bringing bad juju down on your own head despite your best intentions.

Look, I'm not knocking how you feel about it, and I think that most of us here have it at least in our hearts to want to be helpful in such a situation if we could do so without making things worse either for the cop or for ourselves, but your CHL is not a batman license. You are probably far more useful if you take a position behind cover (not concealment) and help with communications by calling 911 and providing them with an independent witness as to what is happening, and to whom. Only involve yourself as a shooter, or as a physical aggressor if you have no other alternative to save your own life, or if the officer in question ASKS for your help, or he's down and out of the fight and about to be killed. I'm betting that most of them won't ask, because it is not in their nature to drag citizens into danger, and doing so is neither in their job descriptions nor in their department policies.

Just my 2¢.

...I personally know two officers who are alive today because a citizen made the decision to step up with a gun and stop a BG:one BG who had disarmed the officer and had his own gun to his head cocked and about to shoot him; one, a lady who maced a carney who had a gun to the officer's head(he'd left his gun in the car... sometimes it goes real well...there's a lot to be considered quickly to make the right decision...don't let anyone belittle your willingness to help, but don't jump in without knowing A LOT about what's really going on and what's wise IN THAT SITUATION...

...it is in state law that a LEO can direct a citizen to become involved...more often, the officer isn't able to ask...he's too busy trying to stay alive...I wouldn't ask him to wait for his backup...anymore than I'd wait for him to get there if I needed help...

That is exactly the point I was trying to make, and which is why I called it a noble sentiment. I wasn't belittling it. I guess that if an officer directed me to get physically involved, I'd do it to the extent that I am physically able to (which is limited), and if I saw a bad guy take down a cop and get his gun and make like he was going to execute the cop, I'd probably fire on him......from cover. But my point is that you had BETTER know exactly what is going on, what the officer's expectations of you are, and whether or not his fellow officers are aware that you are stepping in to help, so that you don't get shot in a case of mistaken identity. In fact, without confirmation from another source or personally witnessing the events leading up to that moment, you don't know if the guy standing over the "cop" is a plain clothed officer detaining a person impersonating a police officer with a stolen cop car. So, it's not that I don't want to be helpful to the police. I'm just saying that you have to be really circumspect about these things because the truth of what is happening may be difficult to ascertain. And maybe not, too. I'm just sayin'..... But that is why I counseled that one should work out well in advance what they might do in situation x, y, or z. Game it out.....just the same way we game out what we might do in any other developing tactical situation, then go practice it if there is a facility at which to do so (IDPA or something like that).....just like we have to make the decision in advance of deciding to carry a gun whether we are willing to use it in the first place if it comes down to that. There's no dishonor in deciding not to carry a gun, but if you decide to do it, you had better know what it is you think you're doing, and why, and not take on either foolish risks, or more responsibility than you can handle. That's really all I'm saying.

[speedsix]

...when I'm pulled over, the first thing he/she sees as he walks up is my smiling face and two paws on the window sill of the door...one clutching my DL and CHL...if he can count paws...that oughta relax him a little...

[GlennGAH]

The one thing that I learned during this encounter is that our Law Enforcement Brothers and Sisters understand that we are on their side and they see us as an asset. I have seen the horrible Dash Cam videos of incidents where LEO's are attacked while pullling someone over. I drive frequently for travel and always keep a sharp lookout for LEOS's who have pulled someone over. When I drive past, I try to observe what is taking place. I am committed to covering their backs if there is ever an incident and I am close enough to assist.

God Bless & Protect our Law Enforcement Officers!

A noble sentiment, and one that may well get you shot by the officer who is in trouble, or shot by his backup brother officers who are on their way to the scene. If I were you, I would work out WELL in advance exactly how you would insert yourself into such a situation without alarming the cop and bringing bad juju down on your own head despite your best intentions.

Look, I'm not knocking how you feel about it, and I think that most of us here have it at least in our hearts to want to be helpful in such a situation if we could do so without making things worse either for the cop or for ourselves, but your CHL is not a batman license. You are probably far more useful if you take a position behind cover (not concealment) and help with communications by calling 911 and providing them with an independent witness as to what is happening, and to whom. Only involve yourself as a shooter, or as a physical aggressor if you have no other alternative to save your own life, or if the officer in question ASKS for your help, or he's down and out of the fight and about to be killed. I'm betting that most of them won't ask, because it is not in their nature to drag citizens into danger, and doing so is neither in their job descriptions nor in their department policies.

Just my 2¢.

...I personally know two officers who are alive today because a citizen made the decision to step up with a gun and stop a BG:one BG who had disarmed the officer and had his own gun to his head cocked and about to shoot him; one, a lady who maced a carney who had a gun to the officer's head(he'd left his gun in the car... sometimes it goes real well...there's a lot to be considered quickly to make the right decision...don't let anyone belittle your willingness to help, but don't jump in without knowing A LOT about what's really going on and what's wise IN THAT SITUATION...

...it is in state law that a LEO can direct a citizen to become involved...more often, the officer isn't able to ask...he's too busy trying to stay alive...I wouldn't ask him to wait for his backup...anymore than I'd wait for him to get there if I needed help...

That is exactly the point I was trying to make, and which is why I called it a noble sentiment. I wasn't belittling it. I guess that if an officer directed me to get physically involved, I'd do it to the extent that I am physically able to (which is limited), and if I saw a bad guy take down a cop and get his gun and make like he was going to execute the cop, I'd probably fire on him......from cover. But my point is that you had BETTER know exactly what is going on, what the officer's expectations of you are, and whether or not his fellow officers are aware that you are stepping in to help, so that you don't get shot in a case of mistaken identity. In fact, without confirmation from another source or personally witnessing the events leading up to that moment, you don't know if the guy standing over the "cop" is a plain clothed officer detaining a person impersonating a police officer with a stolen cop car. So, it's not that I don't want to be helpful to the police. I'm just saying that you have to be really circumspect about these things because the truth of what is happening may be difficult to ascertain. And maybe not, too. I'm just sayin'..... But that is why I counseled that one should work out well in advance what they might do in situation x, y, or z. Game it out.....just the same way we game out what we might do in any other developing tactical situation, then go practice it if there is a facility at which to do so (IDPA or something like that).....just like we have to make the decision in advance of deciding to carry a gun whether we are willing to use it in the first place if it comes down to that. There's no dishonor in deciding not to carry a gun, but if you decide to do it, you had better know what it is you think you're doing, and why, and not take on either foolish risks, or more responsibility than you can handle. That's really all I'm saying.

Again, point well taken, but please take into consideration that some of the forum members are prior military service and have extensive experience. You may want to structure your comments a little different in the future, i.e. 'CHL is not a batman license, etc." To someone like myself, it does not come across well but then again, everyone has an opinion.