Becoming a LEO

[texanjoker]

I was talking to a young officer tonight at the football game I had to work. He was taking about how hard the police academy was. I said, it cannot be too hard, east Texas police academy
has a 93% pass rate. He told me that ETPA policy is any test grade under 80 is failing. He said if you make under a 80 on a test they give you 1 chance to retake it, if you make under a 80 on any other test they kick you out of the academy. Now I know that 70 and above is passing but it seems that ETPA turned that into 80 and above. So if this is all true then the reason the academy has a 93% pass rate is cause they kick people out before they have a chance to fail. In the gamer world we call that "stat padding". This really bothered me, the officer said a lot of people were kicked out in his class, they didn't flunk out but were kicked out. The 93% rating means nothing if this is true. Padded stats are a lie. Should I ask the academy about this? Every-time I talk to them they mention their pass rating, they are proud of it. What would y'all do?

The mindset that high performance standards are "unfair", and that rejecting people who fail to meet the academy's testing standards is "padding the stats" has no place in the law enforcement world.

The reality is that those who put in so little work that they scored below 80 on two tests failed to meet that academy's standards and did flunk out of that academy. The passing stats are not padded. They accurately tell you that 7% of the people who started didn't meet the academy's standards and 93% did.

If you want to succeed as a police officer, drop the gamer mentality. The street is not virtual, and mistakes can't be fixed by a restart. Reality is unforgiving. It takes consistently good decision making and superior performance to make it through to retirement.

Those who think meeting the lowest standards they had to meet in elementary school is good enough should find another line of work where messing up carries less severe consequences. A "70 is passing" mentality will get you killed, sued, or fired. On a really bad day it will get you all three.

Hiring agencies know the comparative expectations of the various academies and will almost certainly give preference to those who pass the tougher programs. They know that great officers man up and challenge themselves to meet the highest standards available because they know the best training is the best preparation for law enforcement work. Giving yourself an easier time in the academy will very likely earn you a tougher road to getting hired.

You have some things to think about.

Only you can determine if that makes sense for your situation. Assess whether you have what it takes to man up and join the 93% or if you're part of the 7%. Then do what is best for you.

and well said. Good background investigators will contact the academy a candidate graduated from to learn the real scoop and it isn't always good.

[nightmare69]

The officer said the one who were kicked out were working full time when not at school and didn't have time to study. This is why I choose to quit my job so I can focus 100% of my free time on school. I imagine its going to be tough but Im going to do my best and apply myself and pray its enough.

Edit: The way the officer said about the fail ratio the students that were kicked out were not included in it. If that is true then the pass/fail percentage is invalid as it does not include students who were kicked out.

[Excaliber]

The officer said the one who were kicked out were working full time when not at school and didn't have time to study. This is why I choose to quit my job so I can focus 100% of my free time on school. I imagine its going to be tough but Im going to do my best and apply myself and pray its enough.

Edit: The way the officer said about the fail ratio the students that were kicked out were not included in it. If that is true then the pass/fail percentage is invalid as it does not include students who were kicked out.

Graduation rate is generally accepted as the percentage of students who finished a program compared to the number that started that program. The interpretation cited above doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If those who failed to meet the standards and were dropped from the program are not included in the graduation rate, where did the 7% who didn't make it come from? A quick call to the academy should be able to clarify the issue and give you solid information that may help you with your decisions.

The academy is and should be hard, but it's not nearly as demanding as what the graduates will be doing when they get hired by an agency.

Working full time and trying to do the academy at night would be brutal and exhausting. You've made a good decision to make the academy program your day job so you can give it the attention it requires. It'll take everything you've got.

I wish you the best with whatever course of action you decide to take.

[Excaliber]

I was talking to a young officer tonight at the football game I had to work. He was taking about how hard the police academy was. I said, it cannot be too hard, east Texas police academy
has a 93% pass rate. He told me that ETPA policy is any test grade under 80 is failing. He said if you make under a 80 on a test they give you 1 chance to retake it, if you make under a 80 on any other test they kick you out of the academy. Now I know that 70 and above is passing but it seems that ETPA turned that into 80 and above. So if this is all true then the reason the academy has a 93% pass rate is cause they kick people out before they have a chance to fail. In the gamer world we call that "stat padding". This really bothered me, the officer said a lot of people were kicked out in his class, they didn't flunk out but were kicked out. The 93% rating means nothing if this is true. Padded stats are a lie. Should I ask the academy about this? Every-time I talk to them they mention their pass rating, they are proud of it. What would y'all do?

The mindset that high performance standards are "unfair", and that rejecting people who fail to meet the academy's testing standards is "padding the stats" has no place in the law enforcement world.

The reality is that those who put in so little work that they scored below 80 on two tests failed to meet that academy's standards and did flunk out of that academy. The passing stats are not padded. They accurately tell you that 7% of the people who started didn't meet the academy's standards and 93% did.

If you want to succeed as a police officer, drop the gamer mentality. The street is not virtual, and mistakes can't be fixed by a restart. Reality is unforgiving. It takes consistently good decision making and superior performance to make it through to retirement.

Those who think meeting the lowest standards they had to meet in elementary school is good enough should find another line of work where messing up carries less severe consequences. A "70 is passing" mentality will get you killed, sued, or fired. On a really bad day it will get you all three.

Hiring agencies know the comparative expectations of the various academies and will almost certainly give preference to those who pass the tougher programs. They know that great officers man up and challenge themselves to meet the highest standards available because they know the best training is the best preparation for law enforcement work. Giving yourself an easier time in the academy will very likely earn you a tougher road to getting hired.

You have some things to think about.

Only you can determine if that makes sense for your situation. Assess whether you have what it takes to man up and join the 93% or if you're part of the 7%. Then do what is best for you.

and well said. Good background investigators will contact the academy a candidate graduated from to learn the real scoop and it isn't always good.

Very true.

I participated in our department's hiring board and read each background investigation in detail. What the instructors at the academy had to say wasn't always good, but it was always both helpful and enlightening.

[Chuck Amuck]

The student is more important than the school. There are some who graduate from a "good" law school who don't pass the bar exam the first time. Some of them don't pass the second time either.

[srothstein]

Edit: The way the officer said about the fail ratio the students that were kicked out were not included in it. If that is true then the pass/fail percentage is invalid as it does not include students who were kicked out.

Graduation rate is generally accepted as the percentage of students who finished a program compared to the number that started that program. The interpretation cited above doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If those who failed to meet the standards and were dropped from the program are not included in the graduation rate, where did the 7% who didn't make it come from? A quick call to the academy should be able to clarify the issue and give you solid information that may help you with your decisions.

I think the problem is knowing which statistic you are getting and what it represents. The important statistic for Nightmare69 is "what percentages of people who enter the academy graduate AND pass the licensing examination?" This is because it is possible to graduate from the academy and not pass the licensing exam. it is also possible to not graduate from the academy.

I think the problem is that TCOLE (the new name for TCLEOSE) only keeps statistics on how many people from each academy pass the licensing exam. They actually keep two statistics on that, how many pass the first time and how many pass overall. They do not know how many entered the academy and left for personal reasons or for failure to meet some academy standard. I would bet the 93% statistic is the number who pass on the first time though it might be the number who pass overall.

So, ask the academy how many who enter it graduate? Tell them you already have the statistic for passing the test, but want to know how many who enter graduate the academy. They should have that stat available for you. You could then verify the test passing rate with TCOLE and apply it to the passing rate. For example, if 80% of the entrants pass the academy, and 93% of the graduates pass the test, then .8 * .93 = .744 (74.4%) of the people who start the academy pass the licensing test.

An even more important question might be to go further and ask how many who enter get jobs as peace officers, but I bet no one knows that number.


EDIT: Just out of curiosity, I just checked the TCOLE web site and it shows ETPA has a 99.23 overall pass rate for the licensing exam for the past three years total. From the chart, that appears to be a first attempt pass rate.

[texanjoker]

Edit: The way the officer said about the fail ratio the students that were kicked out were not included in it. If that is true then the pass/fail percentage is invalid as it does not include students who were kicked out.

Graduation rate is generally accepted as the percentage of students who finished a program compared to the number that started that program. The interpretation cited above doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If those who failed to meet the standards and were dropped from the program are not included in the graduation rate, where did the 7% who didn't make it come from? A quick call to the academy should be able to clarify the issue and give you solid information that may help you with your decisions.

I think the problem is knowing which statistic you are getting and what it represents. The important statistic for Nightmare69 is "what percentages of people who enter the academy graduate AND pass the licensing examination?" This is because it is possible to graduate from the academy and not pass the licensing exam. it is also possible to not graduate from the academy.

I think the problem is that TCOLE (the new name for TCLEOSE) only keeps statistics on how many people from each academy pass the licensing exam. They actually keep two statistics on that, how many pass the first time and how many pass overall. They do not know how many entered the academy and left for personal reasons or for failure to meet some academy standard. I would bet the 93% statistic is the number who pass on the first time though it might be the number who pass overall.

So, ask the academy how many who enter it graduate? Tell them you already have the statistic for passing the test, but want to know how many who enter graduate the academy. They should have that stat available for you. You could then verify the test passing rate with TCOLE and apply it to the passing rate. For example, if 80% of the entrants pass the academy, and 93% of the graduates pass the test, then .8 * .93 = .744 (74.4%) of the people who start the academy pass the licensing test.

An even more important question might be to go further and ask how many who enter get jobs as peace officers, but I bet no one knows that number.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, I just checked the TCOLE web site and it shows ETPA has a 99.23 overall pass rate for the licensing exam for the past three years total. From the chart, that appears to be a first attempt pass rate.

That is the ? of the day. How many get jobs. Go to a respected academy you are more likely to get hired as well.

[E.Marquez]

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, I just checked the TCOLE web site and it shows ETPA has a 99.23 overall pass rate for the licensing exam for the past three years total. From the chart, that appears to be a first attempt pass rate.


That is the ? of the day. How many get jobs. Go to a respected academy you are more likely to get hired as well.

Question; the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education http://www.tcleose.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; site still refers to it as TCLEOSE . Where are you guys seeing it as TCOLE?

All three academy's near me require you to be placed on the roster as a candidate only when they are looking to hire you upon certification, or a associated department paying for you to attend has requested you attend, and has provided a sponsorship letter with the intent of providing a job should you pass and certify.

IOW, if you attend academy... PASS and receive your TCLEOSE cert.. you have a job waiting. I was not aware it was not that way across the board.

My understanding of the pre academy screening, testing, interviews, boards ect is that those chosen to attend = the number of new hires desired,, either by the department that runs the academy or the departments sending folks to it.

[gigag04]

My academy was same rules. Suck it up and study. It's the easiest part of the job.

[Excaliber]

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, I just checked the TCOLE web site and it shows ETPA has a 99.23 overall pass rate for the licensing exam for the past three years total. From the chart, that appears to be a first attempt pass rate.


That is the ? of the day. How many get jobs. Go to a respected academy you are more likely to get hired as well.

Question; the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education http://www.tcleose.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; site still refers to it as TCLEOSE . Where are you guys seeing it as TCOLE?

All three academy's near me require you to be placed on the roster as a candidate only when they are looking to hire you upon certification, or a associated department paying for you to attend has requested you attend, and has provided a sponsorship letter with the intent of providing a job should you pass and certify.

IOW, if you attend academy... PASS and receive your TCLEOSE cert.. you have a job waiting. I was not aware it was not that way across the board.

My understanding of the pre academy screening, testing, interviews, boards ect is that those chosen to attend = the number of new hires desired,, either by the department that runs the academy or the departments sending folks to it.

That's pretty much true for academies that are operated by the large agencies, e.g. Houston P.D.

However, many other academies in the state are independent of any agency and are associated with colleges. They accept self sponsored students as well as those sent by agencies. Self sponsored students attend the courses like they would any other college courses at their own expense with no guarantee of a job at the end. They go through the agency tests, interviews, boards, medical and agility screens, etc. only when they go through the hiring process of an agency they apply to. This usually happens after academy graduation and passing of the licensing exam.

[srothstein]

Question; the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education http://www.tcleose.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; site still refers to it as TCLEOSE . Where are you guys seeing it as TCOLE?

Senate Bill 686 changed the name this year. Click here to see the bill

All three academy's near me require you to be placed on the roster as a candidate only when they are looking to hire you upon certification, or a associated department paying for you to attend has requested you attend, and has provided a sponsorship letter with the intent of providing a job should you pass and certify.

IOW, if you attend academy... PASS and receive your TCLEOSE cert.. you have a job waiting. I was not aware it was not that way across the board.

My understanding of the pre academy screening, testing, interviews, boards ect is that those chosen to attend = the number of new hires desired,, either by the department that runs the academy or the departments sending folks to it.

Some academies do work it the way you mentioned. Most academies from agencies only admit as many as they have slots for. But the COG academies and college run academies may admit anyone they want to. I know that both San Antonio College and the AACOG academy have no requirement for any position afterwards to be admitted. I don't think CAPCOG does either. But, they do charge differently on the tuition rate for private individuals going through than department sponsored individuals. Apparently, East Texas also will also admit without a guarantee of a position.

[nightmare69]

Question; the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education http://www.tcleose.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; site still refers to it as TCLEOSE . Where are you guys seeing it as TCOLE?

All three academy's near me require you to be placed on the roster as a candidate only when they are looking to hire you upon certification, or a associated department paying for you to attend has requested you attend, and has provided a sponsorship letter with the intent of providing a job should you pass and certify.

IOW, if you attend academy... PASS and receive your TCLEOSE cert.. you have a job waiting. I was not aware it was not that way across the board.

My understanding of the pre academy screening, testing, interviews, boards ect is that those chosen to attend = the number of new hires desired,, either by the department that runs the academy or the departments sending folks to it.

You have to have a LE agency sponsor you to get into the academy. 3 types of sponsorships, Full employed, intent to hire, non employed. Most people get the non employed as I will have too then pray you can find a job after graduation. Some department will do the full employed sponsorship and have 2-5 spots. You have to go through all the testing and hiring process. Last department had 3 spots and 140+ people show up. Unless you are a genious and can score high on the civil service test you may as well take a non employed sponsorship and try to find a job afterward.

Some graduates say it took them nearly a year to find work and some never got a job, I will give myself 1 month, if no job I will go to work as a jailer even though that is not what I want to do. Jailers make no money and no telling how long you will have to work in the jail. Being a jailer will be a last resort, becoming a licensed peace officer just to work in a jail seems redundant. Kinda like going to school and getting a law degree, passing the bar, then going to work in a law firm as a custodian. I that is what I have to do as long as it is temporary to become a LEO then so be it. Just scares the doo doo out of me to quit a decent paying job of 10yrs with great hours to go to the academy with no guarantee Ill find work once I get out. Once I get out I will be broke and will have to find something quick.

[Excaliber]

Question; the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education http://www.tcleose.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; site still refers to it as TCLEOSE . Where are you guys seeing it as TCOLE?

All three academy's near me require you to be placed on the roster as a candidate only when they are looking to hire you upon certification, or a associated department paying for you to attend has requested you attend, and has provided a sponsorship letter with the intent of providing a job should you pass and certify.

IOW, if you attend academy... PASS and receive your TCLEOSE cert.. you have a job waiting. I was not aware it was not that way across the board.

My understanding of the pre academy screening, testing, interviews, boards ect is that those chosen to attend = the number of new hires desired,, either by the department that runs the academy or the departments sending folks to it.

You have to have a LE agency sponsor you to get into the academy. 3 types of sponsorships, Full employed, intent to hire, non employed. Most people get the non employed as I will have too then pray you can find a job after graduation. Some department will do the full employed sponsorship and have 2-5 spots. You have to go through all the testing and hiring process. Last department had 3 spots and 140+ people show up. Unless you are a genious and can score high on the civil service test you may as well take a non employed sponsorship and try to find a job afterward.

Some graduates say it took them nearly a year to find work and some never got a job, I will give myself 1 month, if no job I will go to work as a jailer even though that is not what I want to do. Jailers make no money and no telling how long you will have to work in the jail. Being a jailer will be a last resort, becoming a licensed peace officer just to work in a jail seems redundant. Kinda like going to school and getting a law degree, passing the bar, then going to work in a law firm as a custodian. I that is what I have to do as long as it is temporary to become a LEO then so be it. Just scares the doo doo out of me to quit a decent paying job of 10yrs with great hours to go to the academy with no guarantee Ill find work once I get out. Once I get out I will be broke and will have to find something quick.

Three out of 140 is great odds.

In my agency, well over 5,000 people applied and we hired about 22 over the next 2 years. Since we were a civil service agency and could only hire from the top 3 for each slot, only the absolutely best candidates even stood a chance.

That's why I keep telling you not to think in terms of just making average - you need to stand out to get hired. Work hard to be the best of the best.

Unfortunately, rapid hire after the academy is the exception rather than the rule because the hiring process is so long - it can easily take 2 months or more.

The Texas Municipal League is a great resource which many municipalities use to post their officer openings. Go to the job search page, select "police" from the drop down menu, and you'll see all current openings with the most recent first.

Another approach to your post academy employment would be to seek initial hire as a reserve, which is usually easier to get than a full time post. You may be able to put together enough hours from a couple of agencies to be the equivalent of full time if you're lucky, and it would be a much better springboard to launch into a full time position from.

[EEllis]

Another approach to your post academy employment would be to seek initial hire as a reserve, which is usually easier to get than a full time post.

Everyone that I ever knew who went thru an academy without a job waiting for them ended up doing reserve until they got on with a dept. No matter how bad you do if you pass you can eventually get a reserve gig and if you don't screw anything up you will get a full time job after you work for a while, but don"t expect it for quite some time afterwards. You almost certainly will need some other job after the academy for 6 months to a year before getting on full time. Now what you might want to do is get the jailers job and then have the sheriffs dept pay for your academy and you will get a guaranteed opening in the sheriff's dept. You only want a job as a jailer in the county system otherwise it does no good for getting a LEO job. That and the fact that the time spent as a jailer does count on your benefits and retirement if you stay with the sheriffs dept.

[Pawpaw]

You have to have a LE agency sponsor you to get into the academy. 3 types of sponsorships, Full employed, intent to hire, non employed. Most people get the non employed as I will have too then pray you can find a job after graduation. Some department will do the full employed sponsorship and have 2-5 spots. You have to go through all the testing and hiring process. Last department had 3 spots and 140+ people show up. Unless you are a genious and can score high on the civil service test you may as well take a non employed sponsorship and try to find a job afterward.

Some graduates say it took them nearly a year to find work and some never got a job, I will give myself 1 month, if no job I will go to work as a jailer even though that is not what I want to do. Jailers make no money and no telling how long you will have to work in the jail. Being a jailer will be a last resort, becoming a licensed peace officer just to work in a jail seems redundant. Kinda like going to school and getting a law degree, passing the bar, then going to work in a law firm as a custodian. I that is what I have to do as long as it is temporary to become a LEO then so be it. Just scares the doo doo out of me to quit a decent paying job of 10yrs with great hours to go to the academy with no guarantee Ill find work once I get out. Once I get out I will be broke and will have to find something quick.

Will your company allow you to take an unpaid leave of absence? That way, you have your job to go back to after the academy, while you're looking for a LE job.

Just a thought...