Becoming a LEO

[nightmare69]

Three out of 140 is great odds.

In my agency, well over 5,000 people applied and we hired about 22 over the next 2 years. Since we were a civil service agency and could only hire from the top 3 for each slot, only the absolutely best candidates even stood a chance.

That's why I keep telling you not to think in terms of just making average - you need to stand out to get hired. Work hard to be the best of the best.

Unfortunately, rapid hire after the academy is the exception rather than the rule because the hiring process is so long - it can easily take 2 months or more.

The Texas Municipal League is a great resource which many municipalities use to post their officer openings. Go to the job search page, select "police" from the drop down menu, and you'll see all current openings with the most recent first.

Another approach to your post academy employment would be to seek initial hire as a reserve, which is usually easier to get than a full time post. You may be able to put together enough hours from a couple of agencies to be the equivalent of full time if you're lucky, and it would be a much better springboard to launch into a full time position from.

Im was decent in school but no where near the top. I will do my best but I was blessed with common sense more so than book smarts. None of the departments I have called will do a intent to hire sponsorship, they say they cannot commit a job 6 months down the road. Even the academy told me they never get a student with intent to hire sponsor anymore.

As far as working full time while going to school, not an option for me. Every officer I have talked to says if you can just go to school then do so because you will need to study. They have said that alot of people that went to day classes and worked full time at night were kicked out. So I will need time to study and sleep.

[jmra]

From what I'm reading and hearing from local LEO, younger folks seeking a career in law enforcement are opting to go the 4 year degree route. I assume many of these kiddos start out envisioning working for the 3 letter agencies but at least start their careers with local departments. I have no idea how much emphasis those doing the hiring place on education, but if it is anything like other industries someone with the degree is going to have a significant hiring advantage over someone without.
One of my friends (A 29 year LEO veteran) is a professor at an accredited brick and mortar 4 year university. Their Criminal Justice classes are packed. He is also seeing a number of former MPs enrolled who are waiting for openings in departments and are taking advantage of their GI bill to increase their marketability in the field.
His view is that the field will become so crowded over the next few years with degreed applicants that a bachelors degree will become a requirement for new hires. I do understand that given his current occupation, his view may be biased.

[E.Marquez]

From what I'm reading and hearing from local LEO, younger folks seeking a career in law enforcement are opting to go the 4 year degree route. I assume many of these kiddos start out envisioning working for the 3 letter agencies but at least start their careers with local departments. I have no idea how much emphasis those doing the hiring place on education, but if it is anything like other industries someone with the degree is going to have a significant hiring advantage over someone without.
One of my friends (A 29 year LEO veteran) is a professor at an accredited brick and mortar 4 year university. Their Criminal Justice classes are packed. He is also seeing a number of former MPs enrolled who are waiting for openings in departments and are taking advantage of their GI bill to increase their marketability in the field.
His view is that the field will become so crowded over the next few years with degreed applicants that a bachelors degree will become a requirement for new hires. I do understand that given his current occupation, his view may be biased.

Thats an interesting take on the LEO Job market.

While I've not heard a bad word said about having an education,and why would they...it's proof you can be taught.
I have heard an awful lot of "we would prefer to hire more mature people with real life experiences, then a collage age or just above kid out of school, military, another job market." or Ideas and thoughts to that effect.

Possible it's just a regional deal.??. some agencies may desire young 21-25 years olds fresh out of school so they can mold them.. other agency's may want an older person who can not only learn the letter of the law, but the intent as it relates to actual life experiences.

[jmra]

From what I'm reading and hearing from local LEO, younger folks seeking a career in law enforcement are opting to go the 4 year degree route. I assume many of these kiddos start out envisioning working for the 3 letter agencies but at least start their careers with local departments. I have no idea how much emphasis those doing the hiring place on education, but if it is anything like other industries someone with the degree is going to have a significant hiring advantage over someone without.
One of my friends (A 29 year LEO veteran) is a professor at an accredited brick and mortar 4 year university. Their Criminal Justice classes are packed. He is also seeing a number of former MPs enrolled who are waiting for openings in departments and are taking advantage of their GI bill to increase their marketability in the field.
His view is that the field will become so crowded over the next few years with degreed applicants that a bachelors degree will become a requirement for new hires. I do understand that given his current occupation, his view may be biased.

Thats an interesting take on the LEO Job market.

While I've not heard a bad word said about having an education,and why would they...it's proof you can be taught.
I have heard an awful lot of "we would prefer to hire more mature people with real life experiences, then a collage age or just above kid out of school, military, another job market." or Ideas and thoughts to that effect.

Possible it's just a regional deal.??. some agencies may desire young 21-25 years olds fresh out of school so they can mold them.. other agency's may want an older person who can not only learn the letter of the law, but the intent as it relates to actual life experiences.

I don't think he was emphasizing the age thing at all. I think he was suggesting that over the years the industry has become more professional in nature leaving behind the Barney and good ole boy image. The next natural progression in professional development of police forces is to increase the basic requirements of applicants.
In the past insufficient pay has been detrimental to implementing those requirements. But as we see entry level pay for graduates continue to decline throughout the work force, higher educational demands on law enforcement professionals becomes more attainable.
If I were doing the hiring and I had to choose between a 21 year old with a legitimate degree in Criminal Justice and an early 30s guy with a business degree and 10 years of project management experience fresh out of a local police academy, I would choose the latter (assuming all other things equal).
In the absence of such experience (a kid fresh out of the police academy and another with a degree in CJ), I'm going to look closely at the individual's education, their capacity for learning, and of course all the other character traits essential to the job. If the only thing that separates the two is the level of education, the guy with the degree is going to get the nod.

[nightmare69]

I don't think he was emphasizing the age thing at all. I think he was suggesting that over the years the industry has become more professional in nature leaving behind the Barney and good ole boy image. The next natural progression in professional development of police forces is to increase the basic requirements of applicants.
In the past insufficient pay has been detrimental to implementing those requirements. But as we see entry level pay for graduates continue to decline throughout the work force, higher educational demands on law enforcement professionals becomes more attainable.
If I were doing the hiring and I had to choose between a 21 year old with a legitimate degree in Criminal Justice and an early 30s guy with a business degree and 10 years of project management experience fresh out of a local police academy, I would choose the latter (assuming all other things equal).
In the absence of such experience (a kid fresh out of the police academy and another with a degree in CJ), I'm going to look closely at the individual's education and their capacity for learning.

If the industry is going to start requiring a college degree then they will have to up the starting pay to more than 35k a year. Otherwise why spend 4yrs in college only to make a salary that someone with a GED and 18 weeks in a academy can make? If I had a 4yr degree I would not be looking into being a cop. Some departments require 40-60hrs of college credit to apply or 2yrs LE experience, like DPS.

[Tic Tac]

Yes and a typical ex-MP getting a Bachelors in Criminal Justice after mustering out is going to be mid twenties (or older) when they graduate. Education, experience and hopefully some maturity. Not to mention the whole "hire veterans" thing. It can be an attractive combination for agencies.

[E.Marquez]

Yes and a typical ex-MP getting a Bachelors in Criminal Justice after mustering out is going to be mid twenties (or older) when they graduate. Education, experience and hopefully some maturity. Not to mention the whole "hire veterans" thing. It can be an attractive combination for agencies.

Have not spoke to an agency yet that actively sought or had a desire to hire Ex MP's

In fact in listening to the street officers I've spoken to... it's kind of a red flag.. not a disqualify at all, nor a negative in itself .. but it seems to place a big question mark on that applicant until dismissed.

[Tic Tac]

If the industry is going to start requiring a college degree then they will have to up the starting pay to more than 35k a year. Otherwise why spend 4yrs in college only to make a salary that someone with a GED and 18 weeks in a academy can make?

If the industry starts requiring a college degree then someone with a GED can't get the job, so it doesn't matter. There are plenty of private sector jobs (no pension, subject to layoffs, etc.) today that pay in the thirties for fresh college graduates. Those companies have lots more people applying than they have openings. That's the economic reality today.

[texanjoker]

I don't think he was emphasizing the age thing at all. I think he was suggesting that over the years the industry has become more professional in nature leaving behind the Barney and good ole boy image. The next natural progression in professional development of police forces is to increase the basic requirements of applicants.
In the past insufficient pay has been detrimental to implementing those requirements. But as we see entry level pay for graduates continue to decline throughout the work force, higher educational demands on law enforcement professionals becomes more attainable.
If I were doing the hiring and I had to choose between a 21 year old with a legitimate degree in Criminal Justice and an early 30s guy with a business degree and 10 years of project management experience fresh out of a local police academy, I would choose the latter (assuming all other things equal).
In the absence of such experience (a kid fresh out of the police academy and another with a degree in CJ), I'm going to look closely at the individual's education and their capacity for learning.

If the industry is going to start requiring a college degree then they will have to up the starting pay to more than 35k a year. Otherwise why spend 4yrs in college only to make a salary that someone with a GED and 18 weeks in a academy can make? If I had a 4yr degree I would not be looking into being a cop. Some departments require 40-60hrs of college credit to apply or 2yrs LE experience, like DPS.

Many moons ago we did a big study on degrees when I was in SO CAL. The dept was over 2500 leo's. We hired 44 % with a 4 year degree, the average age was 30. In my experience the more book smart the harder it is to train. Leo's need common sense and to be able to follow instructions. A criminal justice degree is good, but you earn those credits in the academy as well. The degree helps earn the Tcleose certifications faster. The background is the first step where people get weeded for not following instructions. I work with guys with masters degrees and people without. In the bigger agencies the degree helps put one over the top as there is a lot of competition. Job stability is also a huge factor. If a person bounces around all the time they are less likely to get looked at. Even if the person has graduated an academy, departments pay money to hire somebody. There are medical and psychological test, uniforms and equipment, and man hours on backgrounds, ect. When one isn't getting hired by the bigger higher paying agencies, they need to look at resources like TML that posts tons of jobs.

[nightmare69]

Was looking on TML and Longview PD is on there. They are 30 officers short and pay the best in east Texas. They are so darn picky though its unreal, I had a adjudicated felony when I was 13yrs old and they said its a automatic DQ. Funny though their website said you could not been convicted of a felony, I was adjudicated, they told me it was the same thing, wrong. Most other PDs either don't care about a juvenile record or only want you to list arrest age 15 and older.

[jmra]

I don't think he was emphasizing the age thing at all. I think he was suggesting that over the years the industry has become more professional in nature leaving behind the Barney and good ole boy image. The next natural progression in professional development of police forces is to increase the basic requirements of applicants.
In the past insufficient pay has been detrimental to implementing those requirements. But as we see entry level pay for graduates continue to decline throughout the work force, higher educational demands on law enforcement professionals becomes more attainable.
If I were doing the hiring and I had to choose between a 21 year old with a legitimate degree in Criminal Justice and an early 30s guy with a business degree and 10 years of project management experience fresh out of a local police academy, I would choose the latter (assuming all other things equal).
In the absence of such experience (a kid fresh out of the police academy and another with a degree in CJ), I'm going to look closely at the individual's education and their capacity for learning.

If the industry is going to start requiring a college degree then they will have to up the starting pay to more than 35k a year. Otherwise why spend 4yrs in college only to make a salary that someone with a GED and 18 weeks in a academy can make? If I had a 4yr degree I would not be looking into being a cop. Some departments require 40-60hrs of college credit to apply or 2yrs LE experience, like DPS.

Many jobs requiring 4 yr degrees have a starting pay in that range. It's been trending that way for the last decade. Of course most of the LEOs I know make a good chunk of change (comparatively speaking) working off duty assignments. That being said, if money is your objective stay away from teaching and law enforcement.

[gigag04]

As far as working full time while going to school, not an option for me. Every officer I have talked to says if you can just go to school then do so because you will need to study. They have said that alot of people that went to day classes and worked full time at night were kicked out. So I will need time to study and sleep.

I guess it depends his bad you want something. I know a guy who finished an engineering degree (NOT online) by day while working 12 hour patrol shifts at night, and raising a family.

Sleep is a crutch.

[WildBill]

The student is more important than the school. There are some who graduate from a "good" law school who don't pass the bar exam the first time. Some of them don't pass the second time either.

Ed Zachary!

IMO, the caliber of students who are admitted to a particular school ultimately determine the overall prestige and ranking of a school. The more selective [in the words of the OP "so darn picky"] the school is, the more likely the graduate will be successful in their chosen field. Successful graduates create a positive image for the school and make it desirable. This leads to more qualified students applying and allows the school to be even more selective and increase their prestige and rating.

IMO, the choice of the school [or academy] is important, but the caliber and ranking of the student is a better predictor of success than one who just meets the minimum passing/fail criteria. Would you rather have a doctor [lawyer, or Indian chief] who graduated last is their class at Harvard or first in their class at UT?

[E.Marquez]

I guess it depends his bad you want something. I know a guy who finished an engineering degree (NOT online) by day while working 12 hour patrol shifts at night, and raising a family.

Sleep is a crutch.

I bet you sleep with that guys wife too



As a side note... 12's is that what Austin works?

[WildBill]

I guess it depends his bad you want something. I know a guy who finished an engineering degree (NOT online) by day while working 12 hour patrol shifts at night, and raising a family.

Sleep is a crutch.

I bet you sleep with that guys wife too