Unpleasant encounter with Rosenberg LEO

[carlson1]

... some people are too tense and should not be cops!

The day they stop being "tense" and on top of their duty they will get killed.

It may be as said above she may be new and just not had much contact with people with CHL's. She may have also had a argument with someone right before stopping you. The police have bad days too.

It may be just me, but because someone hands over a CHL does not mean they are Mr. Good Citizen. The CHL could be suspended. (example: many people drive with suspended drivers license)

At least you were not pulled out of the car, disarmed, and searched for "her protection." It doesn't sound like it was too bad. A plus side no citation.

I guess all the cops that have stopped me wanted to get killed then, since none of them have acted like the one in the op. None of them were "tense." All of them were had situational awareness. And I don't get your logic. And why would someone intending to shoot an officer hand over ID?

Your logic assumes everyone with a CHL is a stand up man/woman. I believe most Officers will take the safer approach (not making excuses for this officer, but I wasn't there)

And yet statistically a Texas CHL holder is more law abiding (lower arrest rate) than a peace officer. Go figure.

I agree. I think this also why on traffic stops a badge and ID doesn't go very far with the officer doing the stop.

[EEllis]

All I heard is how the OP interpreted the officers "Tone". I did not hear one bit of inappropriate behavior on the part of the officer just that the OP wasn't happy with how he viewed the actions. Personally I don't care how a cop pulling me over feels. Where they reasonable professional?" Did they stretch it out and take up to much of my time? If given a cite is it something the officer could believe I did? I don't care if they are scared to wetting their pants at finding out I have a chl until they pull me out a gun point.

[baldeagle]

Encounters like this are why I changed to an out-of-state RKBA license.

Have you had many of these encounters? How does the out-of-state RKBA license help?

[JSThane]

All I heard is how the OP interpreted the officers "Tone". I did not hear one bit of inappropriate behavior on the part of the officer just that the OP wasn't happy with how he viewed the actions. Personally I don't care how a cop pulling me over feels. Where they reasonable professional?" Did they stretch it out and take up to much of my time? If given a cite is it something the officer could believe I did? I don't care if they are scared to wetting their pants at finding out I have a chl until they pull me out a gun point.

It is possible to be "completely professional" and still engage in behavior that can potentially escalate an encounter. I know of incidents here where exactly that happened; body language and obvious nervousness on the part of the officer agitated the driver, which in turn agitated the officer, who misinterpreted... it's a bad loop to get into.

I'm not going to fault either the OP or the officer here, as by his own description, the OP did everything "right" and the officer is a newbie, without the seasoning of experience to lessen the nervousness (but hopefully never to lull into complacency). It is a good learning experience, though, for everyone, readers included. You never know who you're going to encounter, behind the badge or in front of it.

[EEllis]

All I heard is how the OP interpreted the officers "Tone". I did not hear one bit of inappropriate behavior on the part of the officer just that the OP wasn't happy with how he viewed the actions. Personally I don't care how a cop pulling me over feels. Where they reasonable professional?" Did they stretch it out and take up to much of my time? If given a cite is it something the officer could believe I did? I don't care if they are scared to wetting their pants at finding out I have a chl until they pull me out a gun point.

It is possible to be "completely professional" and still engage in behavior that can potentially escalate an encounter. I know of incidents here where exactly that happened; body language and obvious nervousness on the part of the officer agitated the driver, which in turn agitated the officer, who misinterpreted... it's a bad loop to get into.

I'm not going to fault either the OP or the officer here, as by his own description, the OP did everything "right" and the officer is a newbie, without the seasoning of experience to lessen the nervousness (but hopefully never to lull into complacency). It is a good learning experience, though, for everyone, readers included. You never know who you're going to encounter, behind the badge or in front of it.

Sure. And tone and body language is so subjective and when you are there you can be so positive but can't necessarily say why you know something. I just figure, by the description given, that at worst the cop was a bit overcautious for the OP taste. There doesn't seem to be any real activity that anyone could complain about except she had her hand near or on her gun which may just be how she was trained. Being so new she may still follow all her academy training to the letter. I guess my point being if that is something to complain about then why would people listen when something wrong does happen.

[C-dub]

Hey! I called it right from the start. She's still green. The longer she stays alive and a LEO the better she will get at reading body language and everything else. Cut her some slack. Despite her tone, she didn't mistreat the OP or do anything illegal and they both went home safe and sound. The OP may have been her first experience with a CHL.

[handog]

Reaching for and releasing the retention on the pistol was a hostile act meant to intimidate. Such an action could only be justified if the LEO was in fear for her life or bodily injury. To require a CHL to present his license upon a traffic stop then interpret that as a threat is absurd.

[EEllis]

Reaching for and releasing the retention on the pistol was a hostile act meant to intimidate. Such an action could only be justified if the LEO was in fear for her life or bodily injury. To require a CHL to present his license upon a traffic stop then interpret that as a threat is absurd.

Hey Strange is new. I'm just sayin........

[Davy Gravy]

Reaching for and releasing the retention on the pistol was a hostile act meant to intimidate.

If he did that when she approached the car, would people be defending his action? Isn't it reasonable for him to ensure his safety? Specially knowing the criminality statistics carlson1 shared.

[philip964]

With a little more experience she may learn that it is the people without CHLs are the ones to fear.

After all, we all have their back.

[Saffron]

With a little more experience she may learn that it is the people without CHLs are the ones to fear.

After all, we all have their back.

Speak for yourself. I wouldn't be surprised if OP decided to mind his own business from now on.

[Cedar Park Dad]

... some people are too tense and should not be cops!

The day they stop being "tense" and on top of their duty they will get killed.

It may be as said above she may be new and just not had much contact with people with CHL's. She may have also had a argument with someone right before stopping you. The police have bad days too.

It may be just me, but because someone hands over a CHL does not mean they are Mr. Good Citizen. The CHL could be suspended. (example: many people drive with suspended drivers license)

At least you were not pulled out of the car, disarmed, and searched for "her protection." It doesn't sound like it was too bad. A plus side no citation.

I guess all the cops that have stopped me wanted to get killed then, since none of them have acted like the one in the op. None of them were "tense." All of them were had situational awareness. And I don't get your logic. And why would someone intending to shoot an officer hand over ID?

Agreed. The one stop we've had since obtaining CHLs resulted in a long conversation between the wife and the officer about what the ideal CC would be for his wife. Go Cedar Park!..

[Cedar Park Dad]

With a little more experience she may learn that it is the people without CHLs are the ones to fear.

After all, we all have their back.

NO.

I have my family's back. The rest of you potential cat lovers are on your own.

[Charlies.Contingency]

Reaching for and releasing the retention on the pistol was a hostile act meant to intimidate. Such an action could only be justified if the LEO was in fear for her life or bodily injury. To require a CHL to present his license upon a traffic stop then interpret that as a threat is absurd.

I must say that I very strong believe IMO, that you are very wrong. Reach for and releasing the retention is not a hostile act "meant to intimidate". An officer has the right to have their hand on their gun when interacting at a traffic stop. Many well trained and seasoned officers have their level three and two retentions undone upon approach, so the only retention keeping them from drawing is the friction element of their holster. I know many officers whom on traffic stops with any amount of suspicion, remove their weapon from its restraints, and move it to where it cannot be seen by the individual as to not raise alarm or suspicion. Heck, watch cops and you'll see i every once in a while too!

I completely agree with you, on the fact that it was odd of the officer to interpret the chl being given as possible hostility. If she returned to her car to run your DL, and a flag popped up that you have a chl, that would be alarming. I generally see chl holders as the good guys/gals without a uniform, unless they give me a reason to see otherwise. They light in which this story was cast, shows an officer acting unprofessionally in the way she postured, reacted, and communicated with the complainant. There's much better ways to handle this, while being polite and curious.


In other words, the green was showing, no harm no foul, but hopefully lessons were leaned. As for the OP, good job, I would've complimented you for your show of respect and doing the right thing.

[Charlies.Contingency]

Reaching for and releasing the retention on the pistol was a hostile act meant to intimidate.

If he did that when she approached the car, would people be defending his action? Isn't it reasonable for him to ensure his safety? Specially knowing the criminality statistics carlson1 shared.

That would be a very bad day, and you know that. A CHLer should not do anything on a traffic stop. Please look over the use of force laws regarding CHLers and Peace Officers. You can not use deadly force against a peace officer, ever. Unless a cop jumps out of their car shooting at you, I see no need for it.

Section 9.31 SELF DEFENSE

(b) The use of force against another is not justified:
(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;
(2) to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, even though the arrest or search is unlawful, unless the resistance is justified under Subsection (c);
(3) if the actor consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other;
(4) if the actor provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless:
(A) the actor abandons the encounter, or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely abandon the encounter; and
(B) the other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the actor; or

When is it legal to resist search or arrest?

(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is justified:
(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use of greater force than necessary.
(d) The use of deadly force is not justified under this subchapter except as provided in Sections 9.32, 9.33, and 9.34.