Accident With Off Duty Officer

[DevilDawg]

We probably would all do well to keep in mind that even LEO are just people and prone to have a bad day, or react poorly when a stressor is pushed hard enough. That however is all the slack I would be willing to allow here.

Once the off duty ISD officer went into road rage mode he was a threat. Anyone of us would have been gunned down judging by several recent news stories nationwide. Now while you can't very well call his commander and threaten the guy, and shouldn't, but you can impress upon him that his officers could be endangering themselves and others by acting like a deranged idiot. With authority comes responsibility. Period. If you can't behave accordingly turn in the badge and get a job in a much lower stress level.

Kudos on the OP for having the restraint to call in a 3rd party and get it on record. Sadly more and more we are all going to need dash am to prove our innocence

[mloamiller]

This issue started immediately after the accident when he drove up beside me waving what appeared to be a badge. We got to a red light and he placed his personal vehicle in park and got out flashing the badge in his left hand and his right hand on the handgun in a ready to draw position.
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He never got close enough for me to determine if the badge was real or which department he may work for. He had also not verbally identified himself as an officer or the department he works for.
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We made our way to a safer location and he immediately exited his vehicle and commanded me to exit my vehicle.
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So my questions to pose are: Even though I could not truly identify him as a police officer should I have immediately shown my CHL?

You stated he was in his personal car, but not if he was in uniform. Given the last comment about "could not truly identify him as a police office" it sounds like he was in plain clothes? If that is the case, then this is the scenario - you have an accident, the other driver starts yelling at you and when you pull over, he approaches you with his hand on a gun. Sounds like a good way to get shot. Staying in your vehicle (with your hand on your gun) and calling 911 was absolutely the right decision.

In any case, an ISD officer would not have any authority to pull you over, much less arrest you, unless you're on school property, right?

[C-dub]

This issue started immediately after the accident when he drove up beside me waving what appeared to be a badge. We got to a red light and he placed his personal vehicle in park and got out flashing the badge in his left hand and his right hand on the handgun in a ready to draw position.
...
He never got close enough for me to determine if the badge was real or which department he may work for. He had also not verbally identified himself as an officer or the department he works for.
...
We made our way to a safer location and he immediately exited his vehicle and commanded me to exit my vehicle.
...
So my questions to pose are: Even though I could not truly identify him as a police officer should I have immediately shown my CHL?

You stated he was in his personal car, but not if he was in uniform. Given the last comment about "could not truly identify him as a police office" it sounds like he was in plain clothes? If that is the case, then this is the scenario - you have an accident, the other driver starts yelling at you and when you pull over, he approaches you with his hand on a gun. Sounds like a good way to get shot. Staying in your vehicle (with your hand on your gun) and calling 911 was absolutely the right decision.

In any case, an ISD officer would not have any authority to pull you over, much less arrest you, unless you're on school property, right?

I'm thinking that if he was still in his uniform that he wouldn't have had to flash a badge.

[jamminbutter]

He was wearing a black polo shirt with a badge on it but as with the badge he flashed he never got close enough for me to make out what it said.. So, maybe the polo shirt is uniform for him but nothing like a city or sheriff deputy. I did not find out that he was truly an officer and his department until the local officer told me.

I spoke with his employer yesterday and they wanted a verbal statement and the Director of Operation and the HS principal would "speak" with the officer. Well that just says we won't do anything...so it off to the central office to swear out a formal complaint.

[ShootDontTalk]

Oh...now he's in trouble with the principal! As Lt. Joe Kenda says, "My, my, my".

Can you enlighten us about where this took place?

[gljjt]

Reading this today made me order a video recorder ball point pen. Should be here in a few days. Anybody have one of this type of recorder? Thoughts?

[srothstein]

In any case, an ISD officer would not have any authority to pull you over, much less arrest you, unless you're on school property, right?

An ISD police officer is a peace officer with all of the privileges of any other peace officer. He can pull you over for a traffic violation even off campus.

[mloamiller]

Regarding the authority of an ISD officer, the blurb below is one I found on several different school district websites, so it's probably boilerplate.

Reference - Article 2.12 of the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure and Chapter 37.081 of the Texas Education Code.

The Police Officers assigned to the district are Texas peace officers and as such are provided statutory authority to enforce the law throughout the geographical jurisdiction of the school district, not just on district property, as well as the authority to address offenses committed in their presence throughout the State of Texas. This includes contacting people outside of school zones for traffic offenses. In addition to this, ISD Police Officers may exercise authority throughout the state of Texas where the district has property or interests. The authority of the ISD Police Department also travels with the students and staff of the district while they are conducting district functions and operations.

So yes, an ISD officer would have the authority to pull over the OP in this case. That's news to me. I guess I should slow down next time I see that MISD car.

[Texsquatch]

In any case, an ISD officer would not have any authority to pull you over, much less arrest you, unless you're on school property, right?

An ISD police officer is a peace officer with all of the privileges of any other peace officer. He can pull you over for a traffic violation even off campus.

That's fine and dandy when he's off campus playing cops and robbers, but I wonder how he treats the students? Would be interesting to know if there are any prior issues or complaints on his record. Concerned patents would want to know...

[DEB]

Not wanting to change the subject, but this reminds me of when I ran a Virginia State Trooper off the road. I moved into the left lane and for him to miss me he went into the ditch, dust went flying and he come out of that ditch with his lights on. I had already pulled over, knowing that this could be my last day on earth for sure. He pulled in behind me, walked to my pickup, and walked away, walked back to me and walked away, this time he threw his hat like a frisbee into the ditch. He went to the ditch, retrieved his hat, walked up to my window and very tersely asked for my license and registration. I handed them over and he asked if I knew what I had done and I replied in the affirmative with a bit of sorrow and regret, telling him that I sure was sorry. I guess he had got so mad, that once he cooled down, he was burnt out. He gave me a warning and sent me on my way, after we had talked a bit about my unit in the Military. I drove off thanking my lucky stars he didn't apply some stick time to me. I wouldn't have blamed him, LOL.

[EEllis]

In any case, an ISD officer would not have any authority to pull you over, much less arrest you, unless you're on school property, right?

An ISD police officer is a peace officer with all of the privileges of any other peace officer. He can pull you over for a traffic violation even off campus.

If his dept. allows him to do so. I don't think he violated State law just that his behavior, as reported, would be considered inappropriate.

[JSThane]

Not wanting to change the subject, but this reminds me of when I ran a Virginia State Trooper off the road. I moved into the left lane and for him to miss me he went into the ditch, dust went flying and he come out of that ditch with his lights on. I had already pulled over, knowing that this could be my last day on earth for sure. He pulled in behind me, walked to my pickup, and walked away, walked back to me and walked away, this time he threw his hat like a frisbee into the ditch. He went to the ditch, retrieved his hat, walked up to my window and very tersely asked for my license and registration. I handed them over and he asked if I knew what I had done and I replied in the affirmative with a bit of sorrow and regret, telling him that I sure was sorry. I guess he had got so mad, that once he cooled down, he was burnt out. He gave me a warning and sent me on my way, after we had talked a bit about my unit in the Military. I drove off thanking my lucky stars he didn't apply some stick time to me. I wouldn't have blamed him, LOL.

I would have blamed him. Unjustified "stick time" is unjustified, period. Once the threat is no longer a threat, the force stops, no matter what. "Getting your licks in" is NEVER a valid option for a peace officer. I think the Trooper did the right thing: he was mad, he KNEW he was mad, he KNEW he had to "take it out on something," so he flung his hat. Unprofessional, to be sure, but FAR more professional than applying a hickory shampoo as a matter of personal vengeance.

One thing we all have to remember, with regards to the OP, is that cops are people too, and road rage just like anyone else. Possessing a badge, even a valid one, is no indicator that the person is thinking clearly when they're spun up and feeling personally slighted. The OP did the right thing in finding a safe place to pull over AND dialing 911. He had no idea what was going through that ISD cop's head, nor what actions rational or otherwise that person was capable of in his state. Not only did calling 911 help settle the "is this a real cop?" question, but it also brought witnesses, themselves with badges, to the scene.

Personally, I would call the badge-flashing an abuse of authority, based on an accident my family and I were in last year. We got rear-ended by an 18-wheeler hard enough that it totalled and flipped our truck and trailer. I never waved my badge, as it was not pertinent to the situation, and the only person who saw it was the state trooper who took charge of the accident scene / investigation.

In short, that badge and the authority that accompanies it should only come out if and only if the situation falls in line with your official duties. If you have personal involvement in the situation, whether victim or at-fault party, call another badge to come over and take charge. Never try to use your authority in the heat of the moment when you're personally involved.

[ShootDontTalk]

In short, that badge and the authority that accompanies it should only come out if and only if the situation falls in line with your official duties. If you have personal involvement in the situation, whether victim or at-fault party, call another badge to come over and take charge. Never try to use your authority in the heat of the moment when you're personally involved.

Yes sir. Well said and a clear definition of what it means to be a professional. Thank you.

[jamminbutter]

In short, that badge and the authority that accompanies it should only come out if and only if the situation falls in line with your official duties. If you have personal involvement in the situation, whether victim or at-fault party, call another badge to come over and take charge. Never try to use your authority in the heat of the moment when you're personally involved.

Yes sir. Well said and a clear definition of what it means to be a professional. Thank you.

Yes, indeed very well stated!

[ELB]

In short, that badge and the authority that accompanies it should only come out if and only if the situation falls in line with your official duties. If you have personal involvement in the situation, whether victim or at-fault party, call another badge to come over and take charge. Never try to use your authority in the heat of the moment when you're personally involved.

Yes sir. Well said and a clear definition of what it means to be a professional. Thank you.

Yes, indeed very well stated!

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