DPS trooper running serial numbers?

[PeteCamp]

I kinda hate to post this, but I hope Steve or someone will address this issue. It has caused a huge discussion over on another forum - which shall remain nameless. I did not post the original story so this is second hand via that forum.

A 23 year old man with a Texas CHL was stopped (in Texas) for a traffic citation by a DPS trooper. When he presented his CHL, he was disarmed by the trooper. Actually the trooper commanded the man remove the weapon from the holster and hand it over (which he did!!!!). Before returning the weapon, the trooper took the gun to his cruiser and ran the serial number to "make sure it isn't stolen." It was not. The weapon was returned. No citation was issued.

My question: Is this legal to run a serial number? Is this SOP for the DPS when dealing with CHL'ers? If it is legal (4th Amendment), how would the trooper articulate his suspicions that the weapon was stolen? Because he had a CHL? Isn't this a Catch 22 if someone had unknowingly purchased a weapon that, even inadvertently, turned up stolen?

The last thing I want is this to turn into an argument. I am curious about the legality of running serial numbers of guns just because they exist. And no, I don't have any stolen guns!

[WildBill]

My question: Is this legal to run a serial number? Is this SOP for the DPS when dealing with CHL'ers? If it is legal (4th Amendment), how would the trooper articulate his suspicions that the weapon was stolen? Because he had a CHL? Isn't this a Catch 22 if someone had unknowingly purchased a weapon that, even inadvertently, turned up stolen?

IANAL, but I believe that it would be perfectly legal to run the number. However, if the search turned up as stolen, I am not certain they could use the evidence in court.

[camlott]

IANAL, but I believe that it would be perfectly legal to run the number. However, if the search turned up as stolen, I am not certain they could use the evidence in court.

[blue]

Guns have come from many different Countrys, and the manufactors come and go, poor record keeping, etc., till there is a very real possiability that the same serial number has been used many times. s/n should ONLY be run AFTER a big crime and then with a great deal of caution in the results.

NO, they should NOT be running serial numbers routinely on a fishing trip trying to snare someone.

ALSO the biggest problem is the LEO fiddleing around with a UNKNOWN weapon which may be faulty, extra light trigger, or just plain in bad condition thereby putting everyone in grave danger. Officer Safety AND EVERYONE ELSES SAFETY should make it mandantory to 'leave it alone'

!

[jmra]

He can run mine all he wants. I will be requesting if I can remove the mag and clear the weapon before handing it to the officer.

[hoot]

I agree with everything said above, but I am waiting for somebody to say <quote> Now they can add your name and number to their police database <endquote> I also agree that you should ask permission to eject the magazine before handing it over.
Hoot

[PeteCamp]

I mentioned the handing it over only because Massad Ayoob recommends never drawing a pistol from your holster in the presence of an LEO - the appearance of doing so could trigger unpredictable results. Most of the guys in our department say the same thing. I would let the officer take it. That was the only reason I mentioned that. The real issue here is probable cause to run serial numbers.

Irregardless of how many stolen guns there are around, I think there are lot more stolen credit cards. Do you submit to law enforcement rifling through your wallet and running your credit card numbers to determine if they are stolen during a traffic stop? Or your cell phone or ipod? Or tools in your box? Is this possibly a new SOP for DPS? You see where this is headed?

[chabouk]

The problem starts with being disarmed. There are two occasions when a peace officer has authority to disarm a licensee:
1. When he reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of himself, the licensee, or a third party. (Government Code 411.207(a))
2. When entering the nonpublic, secure portion of a law enforcement facility, if properly marked. (Government Code 411.207(b))

There is no blanket authority to disarm every licensee, whether to check serial numbers or for any other purpose.

That said, under the plain view doctrine, he can run any number he can plainly see, whether it's your license plate number, VIN, serial number on the lawnmower in the back of your truck, etc. He just doesn't have the authority to force you to reveal those things so that he can check. Taking your gun from the holster in order to run the numbers is no different than making your remove the stereo from your dash so he can run the numbers.

[GrayGhost]

He can run mine all he wants. I will be requesting if I can remove the mag and clear the weapon before handing it to the officer.

Not me, if he has the audacity to disarm me (I won't be doing anything to provoke such a request), I want him nervous about carrying the darn thing.

[chartreuse]

You see where this is headed?

Papieren, Bitte?

[Estand]

He can run mine all he wants. I will be requesting if I can remove the mag and clear the weapon before handing it to the officer.

Not me, if he has the audacity to disarm me (I won't be doing anything to provoke such a request), I want him nervous about carrying the darn thing.

Hmm, now I am undecided

[C-dub]

I'm not sure I would be comfortable even letting the LEO remove it from my holster. However, if I were compelled to do so, since I wear a paddle holster or MTAC I could remove the holster with the weapon in it and hand it to the officer without exposing the trigger.

[davidtx]

I really don't think I want an officer removing my pistol from my Smart Carry...

[blue]

Be sure it is a good plain view for the VIDEO.

[camlott]

I really don't think I want an officer removing my pistol from my Smart Carry...