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So today I'm at lunch with a co-worker and a business partner at a great barbecue dive near......someplace. (you'll understand in a minute)

We're at a table eating, almost finished, and in walk two Police Department chopper pilots in flight suits. Both of them wearing shoulder rigs over their flight suits. One officer is wearing a vertical holster with a Glock under his left arm, pointing at the floor. The other officer is wearing what I think is a Beretta, in a horizontal holster under his arm, pointing to his rear.

Why do I notice? He's sitting 90 degrees to my right, with the barrel of his duty weapon pointing at my noggin from six or seven feet away. I keep looking at this barrel , and my business partner that I've mentioned in previous posts is a CHL instructor finally sees what I am staring and dodging from says "oh man, are you serious"? I say quietly to my friend "I cannot believe he's carrying like that. That's downright scary, I hope that he doesn't have one in the pipe".

We were close to being finished when they sat down anyway, and after a few minutes I finally told my friends "I cannot sit here, I'm leaving", and gathered my plate for the trash can, and bugged out.

Ok, so, I may have completely over reacted, but having that pistol swinging under that officers armpit pointing at MY melon was just unacceptable. Sure, there may be dozens of guys with 'em under their jackets, but one in the open like that....well, I just flat out didn't like it. Further, I couldn't tell hammer condition, but would assume it was cocked and locked. I'm not sure officers carry any other way.

In closing, I respect the men that protect and serve. I'm sure these guys were well trained, and well intentioned. Perhaps I was the over-reacting paranoid one. However, I just cannot imagine that horizontal shoulder rigs are acceptable given today's options. Particularly carried on the outside of clothing like that.

Was I overreacting? Would you have moved as well?

I've been thinking about this today, and wanted to hear others' opinions on this as well.....

...I wouldn't have moved unless it was a 1911 cocked'n'locked...if it was a Beretta, or a Sig...they don't carry cocked and locked...but down on a live round with a transfer bar or hammer block keeping them safe...a cocked'n'locked 1911 in a good holster SHOULDN'T be a problem, but it woulda ruined my concentration on more important matters at hand, namely crammin' my face...never have liked those horizontal shoulder holsters...but they're really popular these days...I woulda told him "My! What a big hole you have there!!!"...but I'm kinda smartalecky, anyways...

The engineering part of me says there's nothing to worry about since there wasn't anything to pull the trigger. The paranoid part of me doesn't care what the engineering part thinks...

Also, regardless of normal or "best" practices, Berettas can be carried cocked'n'locked.

chuckybrown wrote:Was I overreacting? Would you have moved as well?

it would have drove me nuts as it breaks one of the 4 rules that I instill in myself and anyone I am at a range with, or when talking gun safety.

Moving is the right thing!

I'm almost certain is was a Beretta 92fs.

Irregardless, I just thought that the Don Johnson Miami Vice Classic had gone the way of linen pants and $1 gas.....

I'm not criticizing or condemning saying you're hypocritical at all, but I think you might have overreacted just a tad. I also understand your psychological reason for that reaction. No one likes a gun pointed at them whether it's just laying there on the table unloaded all by its lonesome or in someone's hand with one in the pipe. For those with any respect for guns at all it's just a bit unnerving.

I wonder how an officer in this situation would react if he were politely asked to sit in a different position so the gun were not pointed at someone. Anyone? Would that be a major breach of ethics?

speedsix wrote:...I wouldn't have moved unless it was a 1911 cocked'n'locked...if it was a Beretta, or a Sig...they don't carry cocked and locked...but down on a live round with a transfer bar or hammer block keeping them safe...a cocked'n'locked 1911 in a good holster SHOULDN'T be a problem, but it woulda ruined my concentration on more important matters at hand, namely crammin' my face...never have liked those horizontal shoulder holsters...but they're really popular these days...I woulda told him "My! What a big hole you have there!!!"...but I'm kinda smartalecky, anyways...

Yes, but that's a lot easier for you active and retired LEO's.

C-dub wrote:I'm not criticizing or condemning saying you're hypocritical at all, but I think you might have overreacted just a tad. I also understand your psychological reason for that reaction. No one likes a gun pointed at them whether it's just laying there on the table unloaded all by its lonesome or in someone's hand with one in the pipe. For those with any respect for guns at all it's just a bit unnerving.

I wonder how an officer in this situation would react if he were politely asked to sit in a different position so the gun were not pointed at someone. Anyone? Would that be a major breach of ethics?

I disagree. As Teamless pointed out, it is a blatant disregard for one of the cardinal rules of firearms safety protocol.

I don't think you are in the wrong... but there are definitely going to be those who disagree. Personally, after observing that it was a good, sturdy holster with the trigger guard covered.. I probably would have been okay.

karl wrote:

C-dub wrote:I'm not criticizing or condemning saying you're hypocritical at all, but I think you might have overreacted just a tad. I also understand your psychological reason for that reaction. No one likes a gun pointed at them whether it's just laying there on the table unloaded all by its lonesome or in someone's hand with one in the pipe. For those with any respect for guns at all it's just a bit unnerving.

I wonder how an officer in this situation would react if he were politely asked to sit in a different position so the gun were not pointed at someone. Anyone? Would that be a major breach of ethics?

I disagree. As Teamless pointed out, it is a blatant disregard for one of the cardinal rules of firearms safety protocol.

And I'm fine with that point of view, but just for argument's sake isn't the rule he violated "don't point a gun at something you're not willing to kill or destroy?" Although the gun was pointed at someone it wasn't "being" pointed. It was just sitting there without anyone's finger or anything inside the trigger guard. There was a zero or almost zero percent chance of it ever firing without someone doing something else to change it's condition.

I don't think the gun pointing that way in the holster is really that big a deal. Psychologically, yes, I would have been unnerved too, and I would not carry that way in the open.

Practically speaking, there are going to be times with just about any method of carry where you're going to sweep someone with muzzle of the gun in the holster. When I pocket carry for example, which is a popular method, anyone in front of me when I sit down is going to be in front of the muzzle.

Brian

I was just thinking about the number of times we sweep people while our gun is safely holstered. However, if I had the big, old bore of a .45 looking me in the eye, I would have been very disconcerted. All the same, you did make one silly mistake...and keep this in mind for the next time...

...never, ever, ever throw away perfectly good BBQ. Move to another table and resume chow. Even staring into the face of death is going to make me quit eating way too much BBQ.

RJ

chuckybrown wrote:... at a great barbecue dive near......someplace. (you'll understand in a minute)

Why the reluctance to say where it happened?

I always carried my M9 locked-and-loaded. Most of the base didn't, but I was on a Detached Team and didn't have to play the silly-games that the rest of the FOB did.

Come to think of it; I wore shoulder-rigs, normal holsters and those funky holsters that you wrap around your thigh (when on a mission). Never had any issues with negligent-discharges.

Jumping Frog wrote:

chuckybrown wrote:... at a great barbecue dive near......someplace. (you'll understand in a minute)

Why the reluctance to say where it happened?

...and then he's posting about black helicopters following him everywhere...I don't blame him...you know how "they" are...and they're watching...