First Responder Instructor Certification Training Course

[AF-Odin]

Just got a follow-up email, though not the one I was expecting. They just corrected the code citation. Looked up the one on the original email and could not understand why that particular one was cited. The new citation is 411.184. This one states the subjects that must be taught which includes Instinctive/Reactive shooting, Tactical shooting (not sure what their definition of this is), and low light shooting.

Agree with Trog, would not feel too safe if there was more than 20 or so in the class if folks are drawing and firing and there is movement involved. When I took the School Safety Class, we only had 8 in my class. Good group and we had a lot of fun. Will continue to wait to see if I made it into the 20 April Class and see what their equipment list is.

[Tex1961]

I'm curious as to how many active instructors they sent this to. Assuming somewhere in the neighborhood of 2000 to 3000 active across the state, there are only what 150 chairs in the classroom... Usually when your get your initial LTC instructor email you get a date about 6 months out and you are informed that you must act quick as the first X who respond with affirmative will get that class... This time they gave a date..

Checked RSD website this morning and still no update...

I’m presuming they will have multiple classes and haven’t released all the dates. They may also be seeing what the interest is before they schedule a bunch of classes.

If there is much in the way of “tactical” training, I can’t see there being more than about 20 max to a class. It’s one thing to stand on a static line with 60 others and wait for the target to turn. It’s a totally different thing to be running drills. Again, I just guessing at all of this. Hopefully we’ll get clarification soon.

[AF-Odin]

Well, guess I did not make it into this first class. Talked with another instructor at the indoor range I teach at, and he did. Said he had his completed application back to them in less than 15 minutes after receiving the notice on Friday afternoon. Takeaways:

Class size is limited to 12 per class; Handgun must be .38 or .380 or larger; Semi-auto with minimum 10 round capacity recommended; NO optics; Minimum 400 rounds of ammunition-extra recommended; Minimum of three spare magazine or two speed loaders; Normal DPS range gear-hat, rain gear, closed toe shoes, eye pro, ear pro; Belt or paddle holster that must have either retention mechanism or enough friction to hold the firearm and "overcome gravity" (I assume this means that it won't fall out during movement into unusual positions); NO holster that uses index/trigger finger release allowed (Blackhawk Serpa); Handheld flashlight of 200 lumens or greater (500 lumens preferred), tail cap switch, < 6" long; Weapon mounted light is optional if appropriate holster; Physical ability to move into various shooting positions and to stand for extended periods of time. Bring your own water, snacks, lunch; Some more stuff, but this pretty much covers the "Specialized equipment" and physical requirements I was asking. Interesting that they ask for extra magazines, but did not say anything about mag pouches.

Future classes TBD

[troglodyte]

Thanks for the update AF. As we suspected the “specialized” equipment isn’t that special.

I sent my application back in just under an hour at 1329. Makes me wonder how many got sent before me.

Now to see how quickly they offer classes.

[AF-Odin]

Date/Time on my invite Friday was 1439. I was in Bastrop at the TSRA HQ for a meeting and got a call from my colleague who got into the class about 1530 telling me about it. Could not do anything until I got home so my application did not go in until 1905 Friday evening. We shall see how it shakes out.

[Tex1961]

Maybe it's good not to be in the very first class. I'm sure there will be some things to shake out and it may take a few to do so.

My wife has been wanting to go see her brother in Nevada except he and I don't get along... (Think Sheldon Cooper from BBT) personality... Anyway not realizing that even though there was a set date in the email that I wouldn't get that date she went ahead and got plane tickets for her and our boys for 5 days... OPPS... Guess I'm going to be ordering in for a week.....

[howdy]

Just got the email from DPS that says the first class is full (12) and that all other applications will be put in order that they were received. IF they have another class they will contact you and for us not to call and ask.

[troglodyte]

Did anyone get a “we received your application” email after they sent in the application? I don’t know whether to expect one or not. I’m used to getting one when I send in other correspondence. Makes me a little nervous not knowing if they got it on their end if, as it seems, they got overwhelmed with applications.

[howdy]

With so few Instructors that will be allowed to attend this course, it would seem they would take the best qualified. (I did not consider myself really qualified to teach some of the subject matter required) I would venture to guess that 90%+ Instructors are not really qualified either. We all know Instructors that have "been there, done that" and they should get first shot at this.

[hitwsr]

I got the class full email.
I'm going to throw a few questions out there.

Any thoughts on what to charge for a 40 hour class?
Who is going to pay for it? The 1st Responder? Their Employer?
How feasible is it for them to ask for a week off?
Range rental fees for "run & gun" & concealment/cover training?
Equipment standards? As in City carries Glock, County carries Sig, others Beretta, etc?

Pass/Fail Criteria? 2nd chance cost if they maybe pass written and not pass "advanced" shooting?

[troglodyte]

I got the class full email.
I'm going to throw a few questions out there.

Any thoughts on what to charge for a 40 hour class?
Who is going to pay for it? The 1st Responder? Their Employer?
How feasible is it for them to ask for a week off?
Range rental fees for "run & gun" & concealment/cover training?
Equipment standards? As in City carries Glock, County carries Sig, others Beretta, etc?

Pass/Fail Criteria? 2nd chance cost if they maybe pass written and not pass "advanced" shooting?

I’m guessing it will not be a 40 hour course. More like a 16-24 hour, similar to the School Safety. This would make it more of a weekend class.

Who pays for it is up to the department. Out of our control.

Finding a range might be problematic. With the School Safety I have used a range the school had arranged and I have used my range.

Since it is based off of an LTC I would think there would be no equipment standard. Run what you carry. ETA - The training may require extra mags, flashlight, knee pads, etc. but I don't think the training itself will be equipment (gun) specific.

Fees are always a bit tricky. I try to charge what’s worth my time and still make it affordable.

Again, all guesses. We’ll find out more when the first class goes through.

[troglodyte]

With so few Instructors that will be allowed to attend this course, it would seem they would take the best qualified. (I did not consider myself really qualified to teach some of the subject matter required) I would venture to guess that 90%+ Instructors are not really qualified either. We all know Instructors that have "been there, done that" and they should get first shot at this.

I suspect they will allow as many instructors that wish to take the course to do so. Our School Safety course was also limited to 12 participants per class. We were told at our instructor renewal that the FRC would likely be patterned after the SSC. If so, we aren’t going to be training the FRs to be SWAT teams. It will cover the basics of cover and concealment, using barricades, shooting from different positions, target discernment, situational awareness, and the like. The stuff we don’t get to teach in the LTC class but what every LTC should know how to do. Sounds like the round count is going to be pretty high (at least for the instructor training) so there will be a lot of range time. The round count is comparable to other “intense” training courses, so that should be both instructional and fun.

What criteria would they be able to use to determine “best qualified”?

The biggest problem is they threw this course out there without any real information. Now we’re all guessing what it is, how it’s going to be run, and if we really want to mess with it. For me it’s an easy decision. Training is training and this is free. The DPS does good training at a nice facility. The last three day course I went to cost me about $800 tuition. It’ll be worth a couple of nights hotel and ammo. If I don’t ever teach a FR class I’ll still come out ahead.

[Tex1961]

With so few Instructors that will be allowed to attend this course, it would seem they would take the best qualified. (I did not consider myself really qualified to teach some of the subject matter required) I would venture to guess that 90%+ Instructors are not really qualified either. We all know Instructors that have "been there, done that" and they should get first shot at this.

I suspect they will allow as many instructors that wish to take the course to do so. Our School Safety course was also limited to 12 participants per class. We were told at our instructor renewal that the FRC would likely be patterned after the SSC. If so, we aren’t going to be training the FRs to be SWAT teams. It will cover the basics of cover and concealment, using barricades, shooting from different positions, target discernment, situational awareness, and the like. The stuff we don’t get to teach in the LTC class but what every LTC should know how to do. Sounds like the round count is going to be pretty high (at least for the instructor training) so there will be a lot of range time. The round count is comparable to other “intense” training courses, so that should be both instructional and fun.

What criteria would they be able to use to determine “best qualified”?

The biggest problem is they threw this course out there without any real information. Now we’re all guessing what it is, how it’s going to be run, and if we really want to mess with it. For me it’s an easy decision. Training is training and this is free. The DPS does good training at a nice facility. The last three day course I went to cost me about $800 tuition. It’ll be worth a couple of nights hotel and ammo. If I don’t ever teach a FR class I’ll still come out ahead.

Well said. And agree, the training alone is worth a few nights hotel stay.

[Mike S]

I got the class full email.
I'm going to throw a few questions out there.

Any thoughts on what to charge for a 40 hour class?

Equipment standards? As in City carries Glock, County carries Sig,

Pass/Fail Criteria? 2nd chance cost if they maybe pass written and not pass "advanced" shooting?

I'll opine on these topics.

Keep in mind the legislature constrained the initial course to not exceed 40 hrs; it didn't specify a minimum length. Without knowing what the exact task/conditions/standards of whatever the DPS has developed, it's not feasible to identify how long it will take to get first responder students to achieve those standards. So, developing a cost-estimate at this point in time is just a swag.

Rather than starting from a pre-determined timeline of 'X' number of hours or days, I would use the topics listed in the statue as a staring point & estimate how long it will take YOU to instruct up to 6x students of varying skill levels to accomplish each of the required tasks to standard. ((Whatever standard the DPS establishes would be the bare minimum in order to be compliant with the program; those standards we'll have to wait for the class to know)). ((I'm assuming 6x students, patterning it off the SSC Instructor: Student ratio of 1:6, not to exceed 12x students if you partner with another instructor)).

For example, the SSC only has three must-pass events: 90%+ score on the pre- & post- written exams, & a 90%+ score on the pre-qualification using the same course of fire as the LTC proficiency. All of the practical exercises & remaining live fire events aren't graded. The legislature established the topics to be covered, but not the standards. Same as the FRT. So, if the requirement for 'shooting while moving' is only a familiarization event without a marksmanship requirement, then you can easily run students thru the event & move on to the next 'familiarization' event without providing any real, meaningful instruction ((no, I'm not advocating for this approach; rather I'm highlighting how each of us can estimate the time required to actually provide a value-added event rather than just running cattle thru the chute to receive a certificate)). However, if there's an actual standard to be achieved, ((ie, "with 10x rounds loaded, hit X% of targets while moving forward from the 15yd line to the 5yd line within 30 seconds of the starting beep, while continuously moving without stopping, & without causing an unsafe act")), then we'll also need to factor in the instruction, demonstration, & dry/live fire practice time to get up to 6x students with minimal experience to the point of reaching that standard.

For retests, I'd assume it will be the same standard as for the SSC; 1x retest allowed. But, there's only 3x graded events in the SSC, & two of those are written exams. We won't know until the instructor training what the DPS has put together for the FRT.

For equipment requirements, I'd use whatever the DPS' curriculum mandates, then adding to it as you see fit for however you intend to run your course. As an example, for some of my private courses I require the students to bring a bare minimum of 2x magazines, but I state in the welcome letter that bringing 6x magazines will optimize the flow of the course of fire. For running 6x students thru a course like the SSC or FRT, I'd just require they bring x# of magazines, as having students go dry at differing stages of each drill would interrupt the flow of instruction & become a training distractor. Again, without knowing the exact curriculum, a required gear list would be a swag at this point.

[Tex1961]

So how many replied to today’s RSD email with a YES, I still want to take the class.