`Lowering the 10 hour min. would be nice

[creitsma]

I wonder if his students are the ones coming here with those questions because he won't answer them.

I answer them with the proper term from the penal code..I dont give them ghetto street slang....

[Oldgringo]

OTOH, there is no intellectual requirement; i.e., SAT test, etc, for the students either.

Thank God. I don't believe there should be an SAT test for the God-given right to defend oneself.

Maybe the CHL written test should be done at DPS offices like the DL written test. Get randomly selected questions from a big pool. We would either have to know the answers or fail.

Sounds pretty elitist to me.

Well Froggy, tell the DPS of your feelings when your Drivers License expires. I'm sure they'll understand.

[C-dub]

Hey there Point.

As long as you're teaching it, whatever it's called. It doesn't seem like some instructors are. And even though "printing" is in the code I would also hope that you are explaining it is and that it isn't illegal.

[creitsma]

OK....I have said my piece here...Use what ever terms you want....If people know it as such than call it what you want as long as the info reaches the student its all good.

[creitsma]

Hey there Point.

As long as you're teaching it, whatever it's called. It doesn't seem like some instructors are. And even though "printing" is in the code I would also hope that you are explaining it is and that it isn't illegal.

You are right 100%...And i dont call it printing but i go over the definition of what concealed means several times...How ever you teach it as long as it is being taught it is good.....I dont even know how this post ended up on all this other stuff but oh well.....I posted about lowering the 10 hour min. but have now changed it to lets raise the 10 hour min. because you guys dont think 10 hours is to long....It some classes it is ok but in some smaller classes it is some times hard to make the 10....

[Texas Dan Mosby]

I have heard of and met a lot of new CHLers who

* don't know where is off limits
* don't understand the 30.06 law
* don't know churches are no longer off limits unless there's 30.06 notice
* don't know the Chapter 9 rules for deadly force
* don't even know the Chapter 9 rules for force
* don't know there's a difference between MPA and the castle doctrine
* are confused about "printing"
* are confused about CHL and alcohol or prescription drugs
* aren't familiar with their carry gun
* know little or nothing about nonviolent dispute resolution

Do criminals know any of that?

Do criminals care about any of the laws before they "one up" a law abiding citizen by bringing a "bigger stick" to impose their will?

No. Of course not.

While I respect your opinion, and understand your intent, I don't agree with it, simply because the lawful restriction of arms does not impact the criminal element, and only serves to hinder the law abiding.

There are many states that do not mandate "training" for their citizens prior to allowing them access to the tools they may need to defend themselves, and others that require NO "license".

I am of the opinion that the overwhelming majority of Texans are capable of doing the right thing without the need of licenses or mandated "training".

[Charles L. Cotton]

I have heard of and met a lot of new CHLers who

• don't know where is off limits
• don't understand the 30.06 law
• don't know churches are no longer off limits unless there's 30.06 notice
• don't know the Chapter 9 rules for deadly force
• don't even know the Chapter 9 rules for force
• don't know there's a difference between MPA and the castle doctrine
• are confused about "printing"
• are confused about CHL and alcohol or prescription drugs
• aren't familiar with their carry gun
• know little or nothing about nonviolent dispute resolution

Should I go on? It looks like 10 hours is not enough for a lot of instructors to teach the required classroom topics in a useful way.

Oh yea...You said somthing about printing and the castle doctrine...The term "printing" and "castle doctorine" are not in the Texas penal code....We dont have castle doctrine in Texas...Yes we have a law that is the same as the "castle doctrine" but Texas does not call it the "castle doctrine" so dont use a term in your class that your students wont find in the penal code..Yes i know the test says "castle doctrine" but that just shows the person who made up the test has no clue...."printing" is street slang and i dont use street slang in my class...The penal code gives a definition of "concealed" but does not mention the term "printing" one time....If you knew the penal code you would know all this...No problem...I dont mind teaching other instructors........Just food for thought....

A lot of laws are given a name when they're introduced in the legislature. You won't generally find those names in the actual law. Motorist Protection Act, Texas Castle Law, Ashley's Law are a few that I can think of. I don't think there's anything wrong with talking about a law by the name it is/was commonly known as, as long as you're teaching the law correctly. A lot of people particularly confuse the Motorist Protection Act with the Castle Law.

Similarly, the term "printing" may not be in the penal code, but that's the common term for your gun showing. There's nothing wrong with talking about printing when talking about "failure to conceal".

Brian

Again...The tearm "castle doctorine" was never a name used by the legislature or any one who introduced the law..It was introduced as the "stand your ground" law..Anything else.....You have to know your stuff when dealing with me...."casltle doctrine" is street slang here and it was taken from Florida because they where the first to pass a law like this and they call it the "castle doctrine"

Chris, you're dead wrong; "Castle Doctrine" was used extensively when referring to SB378 and our opposition argued that we already have the "Castle Doctrine" in Texas and don't need to pass SB378. The term "Castle Doctrine" has been an NRA campaign throughout the country and it was used here to promote SB378. In truth, our version of the "Castle Doctrine" bill did much more than deal with the retreat duty.

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Never mind...Lets raise the min. to 15 hours so you guys will have plenty of time......

Knock off the attitude Chris.

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

.You have to know your stuff when dealing with me...."casltle doctrine" is street slang here and it was taken from Florida because they where the first to pass a law like this and they call it the "castle doctrine"

Wrong again! The term "Castle Doctrine" is a legal term that has nothing to do with Florida.

Chas.

[Blindref757]

How about we not look to state government to tax or burden our US Constitutional right to carry a gun. Period. You don't need 4, 8, 10, 12, or 15 hours in a class. You need to have personal responsibility to go find the pertinent info and you shouldn't carry a gun that you can't shoot straight with.

[Charles L. Cotton]

...10 hours is to long and most other States have shorter classes and some States stopped using there own instructors and started using NRA instructors...

What states use NRA Instructors to teach a state class? Do you know of any states that abandoned their own state classes in favor of NRA classes? Some states accept NRA classes, like the NRA Basic Pistol Class, but that's an 8 hour class. Alice Tripp and I have been talking about lowering the new and renewal CHL class to 4 hours exclusive of the range time.

Chas.

[Heartland Patriot]

I know this is the instructors' area and I hope you will forgive me, but I REALLY have to put two cents in on this one...the two terms that drive me CRAZY (having been a member of this forum for a little while now) are PRINTING and BRANDISHING. I simply despise those words. They are NOT in our Penal Code and have NO MEANING under our laws. They DO mean stuff in other states (though the terms vary from place to place, of course)...and if folks come from other states, or hear those from other states using these terms, they may start spreading dis-information. Thanks to some VERY good folks who put in a LOT of hard work, we don't have to worry about those VERY ambiguous terms. Our laws are a LOT more straightforward and really should be taught that way. I had a great bunch of instructors when I took the class here in the Ft. Worth area and they gave factual definitions and explanations. Then later, when I got my plastic and had newbie nervousness, many fine folks here on the forum reinforced what I was taught and I quit worrying about "printing" and "brandishing". Concealed means concealed, right? Yes, no one is going to leave a CHL class hyper-adept at the Penal Code, but at least they can have the knowledge of what IS and what ISN'T correct in the Great State of Texas when it comes to CHL...thank you, my apologies for the interruption.

[creitsma]

...10 hours is to long and most other States have shorter classes and some States stopped using there own instructors and started using NRA instructors...

What states use NRA Instructors to teach a state class? Do you know of any states that abandoned their own state classes in favor of NRA classes? Some states accept NRA classes, like the NRA Basic Pistol Class, but that's an 8 hour class. Alice Tripp and I have been talking about lowering the new and renewal CHL class to 4 hours exclusive of the range time.

Yes...For one Arizona has dropped there certified instructors and now accept any NRA class including the 3 to 4 hour NRA First Steps Pistol class.....Florida also accepts the 3 to 4 hour NRA First Steps Pistol class....I know AZ has open carry without license but they still need a license to carry concealed in most places in AZ and they certified there own instructors and had class guid lines in place like Texas does but they have dropped there instructors all together...My Point was that a 10 hour min. time is to long and should be looked at..Since Instructors teach this class i thought we could all speak out but it just went every where...I did not plan on posting negative comments about any one..Florida will accept any class taught by a NRA instructor and the instructor can just make up his own class certificate for the student.The 10 hour min. needs to be reviewed....

[apostate]

I know AZ has open carry without license but they still need a license to carry concealed in most places in AZ and they certified there own instructors and had class guid lines in place like Texas does but they have dropped there instructors all together

Define "most places" please.

My understanding is the only significant difference in Arizona law between licensed and unlicensed concealed carry are places that serve alcohol. Am I misinformed?

[creitsma]

.You have to know your stuff when dealing with me...."casltle doctrine" is street slang here and it was taken from Florida because they where the first to pass a law like this and they call it the "castle doctrine"

Wrong again! The term "Castle Doctrine" is a legal term that has nothing to do with Florida.

Chas.

The term may not have come from Florida...but Florida was the first state in the united states to put a "casltle doctrine" law on there books..Texas and other States just followed them...The term "castle doctrine" is in the wording of Floridas law but the term "castle doctrine" is not once listed in the penal code....Thats what i was tring to say.....